Questions about Weatherby Vanguards and Howas

I've got an older Vanguard .308, not the newer S2 version, with a Bell & Carlson stock that I like and am thinking about buying a newer .223 Vanguard S2 or maybe a Howa .223, short action, and wondering if my B&C stock will fit the newer models and if there's any external differences in the .223 and .308 barreled action fitment? I don't see any mention of the S2 version of the Vanguard on the Bell & Carlson website, I assume the stock will fit either but would appreciate confirmation if someone knows for sure.

I'm reading the S2 has a pretty good trigger, anyone have experience with it? The trigger on my old Vanguard is really poor compared to my Rem 700.

Anyone familiar with the Howa "Mini Action"? I know my stock wouldn't fit it but think that would be a neat little rifle if the action is same build quality as the older Vanguard short action that I have.

The Gun Tests magazine did a test on the mini action, and wasn't that thrilled with it.

I have several Vanguards, all S1 except for my Dad's S2. All the S1s but one have the triggers replaced, usually with a Timney. The S2 has the factory trigger, and it is much nicer, especially after a bit of polishing of the internals.

Your stock should fit a short (not mini) action, but watch carefully the trigger area. There are times the factory and/or aftermarket triggers rub a bit on these.

Here's my recommendation...

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...Bolt+223+Remington/5.56+NATO+24+5+1+Synthetic

Maybe just stick with the standard short action vanguard. Your options for aftermarket stuff will likely be better than the mini action. I personally don't much care for Howa's DBM arrangement; reminds me of CZ's 527, sticks out right where I want to carry it by.

I would steer clear of the mini unless they have one with a hinge style floor plate. The dbm is terrible and the mag is even worse. My Dad has one that I've been around a bit. Their is a company that, last I heard, was still in the R&D phase on a aluminium bottom metal. I did some preliminary testing for them with my dad's rifle.

Thanks for all the statements about the Howa Mini Action, lots of good points to consider there. I think I'll limit my search to the Vanguard S2 and bed my B&C stock to it.

I kind of been wanting a .223 bolt action off and on for awhile now but have kept talking myself out of it as the safe is beyond cluttered and I've got more than a few AR's and a bolt action .22-250 and .22mag but I guess I'm trying to convince myself since I have a nice stock for a Vanguard that's on a rifle I never shoot but kept around for a loaner deer rifle then I should wrap that stock around something I'd shoot some.

A man who loves rifles will find a convincing way to justify adding another one right?

I watched for a while and found a Sub-MOA version of the S1 in stainless. Great, accurate rifle and it comes with a B&C stock.

MudRunner2005 said:

Here's my recommendation...

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/42397/Firearms/Rifles/Remington/Bolt+Action+Centerfire/Remington+Firearms+85504+700+5-R+Bolt+223+Remington/5.56+NATO+24+5+1+Synthetic

Click to expand...

I definitely love the Remington 700, currently have three of them and have owned many others that I now wish I had never sold. Other than the sorry trigger on the first gen Vanguard I think I like it about as good as the 700. I'm just trying to talk myself into another rifle that I really don't need but I hate to see a decent stock sitting on a loaner rifle that I'm not shooting. I'd probably do a little 100 to 400 yard water filled can plinking with a .223 if it'll bed into that stock nicely and hold a decent group.

I noticed that the Rem 700 linked there has a 1:9.5 twist vs most of the other bolt guns I've seen in .223 having a 1:9, wonder why Remington chose the slower twist? Wish they were all putting 1:8 twists on them but I'll probably stay in the mid range bullet weight so anything from a 1:7 to 1:12 would work for what I'll likely shoot most of the time.

I do know that a 1:12 in a .22-250 with a 75gr pill doesn't come close to working. Before I started reloading a friend of mine loaded a few 75gr for me to try out. I didn't know much about twist rates at the time but my .22-250 would print near 1/4MOA groups with 50gr or 55gr V-max factory loads and I missed a sheet of note book paper at 100yards with the first 75gr load fired. I shot a second time and saw dirt fly about half way to the target, both my muzzle and the target about 3ft above the ground. That bullet had to have started tumbling right out of the muzzle.

Unfortunately, Remington is ran by a board of rich old Fudds, who are only interested in keeping their profit margins exactly like they are...Instead of upgrading their tooling and twist rates, and making MORE money, because they would be changing with the times, and making guns people actually want. LRH and LRS has become VERY popular in the last 10 year, and has skyrocketed in the last 5 years. Therefore heavy high-BC bullets are now the norm. And you have to have modern twist rates than those that were being used 50 years ago...And even more than those being used just 10 years ago. And while majority of gun purchasers are hunters, and buy factory ammo, a huge chunk of the market that Remington could be getting in on, would be the LRH and LRS market if they would just upgrade their designs and rifles a little bit and stop going up on the **** prices so much. Their design team, design engineers, and marketing team SUCKS.

I would rather see Remington upgrade ALL of their rifles to the hammer-forged 5R rifling, and modern twists, in EVERY model. That would completely revamp their image, and would boost sales like they have never seen before. If they would swap all .223 Rem rifles over to a 5R 1:7 twist barrel, and thread it, they would sell. If they would build a short-action tactical 5R rifle with a 20" 1:8 twist 6.5 Grendel, that would also sell. I've got tons of ideas, but they're gonna have to pay me to get them.

Hey Remington, you listening? I'll do it, but you got to pay me son!

Of all companies to get with the program, I can't believe how well Browning has stepped up in the last 10 years. Anybody looked at how many variations and chamberings they offer? And the twist rates, right where people have been asking for! The only thing they (and everyone else) need to do is put the 8 twist tubes on their 243s...

Cz has a 3 round flush magazine you can buy for the 527 action.