Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 questions

[boattailed bandit]

So I have looked around the site and a lot of other places on the net and have a few questions regarding the vanguard s2. How positive is the sub-moa guarantee they come with? I really like that its not free-floated because it is less worry for me (no sweating on stock flex hitting barrel and changing POI) but I wonder if one can leave it non free float and be okay? That is my main concern. The rest are all minor. How are the triggers on the S2? My father has a original vanguard and its got some creep but not bad, wondering how much of an improvement the new trigger is. Last of all this will be chambered in 270 Win so there is not a varmint option, but from looking on line they appear to have a thicker contour than a standard sporter barrel. Is this true or just an illusion from the pics on the net? Havent got to handle one in person yet so I am just wondering if they are worth the trouble. If anybody has one they could post some pics of that would be great. Any info is appreciated guys because Im hopefully going to be getting a new rifle soon and safequeening my A-bolt Medallion for my son. Might not be able to talk the wife into another purchase any time soon either.

 

[Jud96]

So I have looked around the site and a lot of other places on the net and have a few questions regarding the vanguard s2. How positive is the sub-moa guarantee they come with? I really like that its not free-floated because it is less worry for me (no sweating on stock flex hitting barrel and changing POI) but I wonder if one can leave it non free float and be okay? That is my main concern. The rest are all minor. How are the triggers on the S2? My father has a original vanguard and its got some creep but not bad, wondering how much of an improvement the new trigger is. Last of all this will be chambered in 270 Win so there is not a varmint option, but from looking on line they appear to have a thicker contour than a standard sporter barrel. Is this true or just an illusion from the pics on the net? Havent got to handle one in person yet so I am just wondering if they are worth the trouble. If anybody has one they could post some pics of that would be great. Any info is appreciated guys because Im hopefully going to be getting a new rifle soon and safequeening my A-bolt Medallion for my son. Might not be able to talk the wife into another purchase any time soon either.

Just to let you know, a non free floated rifle will have the stock rubbing up against the barrel messing with the harmonics of the barrel when its fired. If the stock warps any or flexs it will rub and push against the barrel even more, effecting accuracy and point of impact.

 

[boattailed bandit]

Right, I knew it could, but my theory for less concern was the fact that if they guarantee sub-moa with a non-free float barrel then warp or flex may have less of an effect. I know there are lots of advantages of a free float barrel, its all Ive shot actually. I was just wondering if the weatherby might be more "user friendly."

 

[MontanaRifleman]

After my experience with SAKO/Beretta I will never trust another "factory accuracy guarantee" again. I ended up with a 2-4 MOA shooting SAKO M85 Finnlight that was sent back to them twice and twice they told me there was nothing wrong with it... told me the barrel was dirty which was total BS.

Bottom line, accuracy guarantees mean nothing. I liked it much better when Weatherby put in factory shot targets with their old SUB MOA rifles. They basically changed their old standard Vanguard line and called it the S2 Sub MOA rifle and what they used to call a Sub MAO rifle is now called the "Range Certified" rifle with a better B&C stock and target.

That said, you hear very few complaints about any of the Vanguards. As with any factory rifle it's a gamble, but IMO, less of a gamble than with most other factory sporters.

You can try shooting it non-floated, but your barrel and stock will react to changing environmental conditions which will cause variation in pressure at the pressure point, which will probably affect POI. I much prefer a free floated stock. I would also recommend selling the factory stock and replacing it with a B&C Medalist and bedding the action in it. It will be a great platform if and when you decide to rebarrel.

I like the new trigger a lot but can not be tuned down much below 2 1/2 - 3 lbs. It is a 2 stage, 3 position safety trigger which breaks very clean @ about 3lbs. My smith is going to try and get it down to 1 - 1 1/2 lbs. If it doesn't work, I'll replace it with a Timney.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm going to take my Weatherby Mark V Accumark to my smith to have the bore scoped, with less than 200 rounds down it. It is NOT copper-fouled and this bore has so many tight-spots in it, that I've considered asking Weatherby for a full-refund. This gun shoots 1"-4" MOA, but should be shooting around half. Even with factory ammo. Sometimes I can't even run a jag and patch through it without having to hit the rod handle with my hand to get it move forward...

I am going to have my smith do a professional analysis of it, and get his thoughts on it. If it IS a bad barrel I will be sending it back to Weatherby. Weatherby seems to have very good customer service, but for a $2,100 MSRP rifle, I am NOT impressed.

Not trying to talk bad about weatherby, just letting you know that this can be a possibility, and something to watch out for.

 

[Jud96]

Right, I knew it could, but my theory for less concern was the fact that if they guarantee sub-moa with a non-free float barrel then warp or flex may have less of an effect. I know there are lots of advantages of a free float barrel, its all Ive shot actually. I was just wondering if the weatherby might be more "user friendly."

I know I will never hear the end of this, but to be honest, I'm not to impressed with Weatherbys. My Uncle would be hitting me over the head right now if he heard me say that. They have a very strong action, especially the Mark Vs but they are so expensive. Yea you're getting a good piece of wood that is finished nicely, but accuracy wise they are pretty average. Nothing is more user friendly about them then anything else. People treat Weatherbys like they are the gods of all rifles. They are nice but not leaps and bounds better than others in my opinion. The new Vanguard S2s are very nice but can't see spending close to $1000 on one.

My cousin has the standard Vanguard in .270 WSM that he got for a steal a few years ago, and I have a few reasons I don't care for it. Don't get me wrong, its very smooth. The problem is that its blueing is very thin on the barrel and is starting to thin after only a few years of use and it has been well taken care of. It also has the worst trigger on a hunting rifle I have ever felt, has a ton of creep and has to break at 6-7lbs. Weatherbys are known for their nice stock finish but this thing looks like it has a piece of balsa wood for a stock. I know its only the cheaper Vanguard but still not impressive for something that sells for $600 most of the time. Maybe the Series 2 will be better.

 

[Shortmagman]

I had never owned a Weatherby until last spring when I decided that since I had given my Ruger Model 77 in 270 Winchester to my grandson, I needed another 270 Win. to shoot up the .277 bullets and 270 Win brass that I had
accumulated over the past 25 years.

I bought a Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 rifle in 270 Win and started to work up loads. I found the gun to be a bargain since I payed $499 at Bass Pro.
It has a number of features that I like, 24 inch barrel, a 3 position safety, and a good trigger. The trigger breaks at about 3 lbs which I found to be fine. The only thing I don't like about the gun is the weight, with the scope mounted it is over 9 lbs.

How does it shoot? I know that this is only one gun and I may have gotten a very good one and others will not do what mine will do, but this gun shoots very well for a $500 gun. I have found that it will shoot more than one bullet and one load into .5 or less for three shots.

Here are a couple of pictures of the rifle and a couple of targets.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I know I will never hear the end of this, but to be honest, I'm not to impressed with Weatherbys. My Uncle would be hitting me over the head right now if he heard me say that. They have a very strong action, especially the Mark Vs but they are so expensive. Yea you're getting a good piece of wood that is finished nicely, but accuracy wise they are pretty average. Nothing is more user friendly about them then anything else. People treat Weatherbys like they are the gods of all rifles. They are nice but not leaps and bounds better than others in my opinion. The new Vanguard S2s are very nice but can't see spending close to $1000 on one.

My cousin has the standard Vanguard in .270 WSM that he got for a steal a few years ago, and I have a few reasons I don't care for it. Don't get me wrong, its very smooth. The problem is that its blueing is very thin on the barrel and is starting to thin after only a few years of use and it has been well taken care of. It also has the worst trigger on a hunting rifle I have ever felt, has a ton of creep and has to break at 6-7lbs. Weatherbys are known for their nice stock finish but this thing looks like it has a piece of balsa wood for a stock. I know its only the cheaper Vanguard but still not impressive for something that sells for $600 most of the time. Maybe the Series 2 will be better.

S2 Vanguards range from less than $500 for blued to up to maybe $600 or so for stainless. The Wetherby Mark V's are a whole different animal than the Vanguards. Different actions, barrels and stocks. They both "usually" shoot very well. On every older Howa/Vanguard I have ever owned (4 of them), I have been able to easily tune the triggers to a crisp 1.5 lbs... couldn't tell the difference between them and a Timney if you were blindfolded. The newer trigger (which I have on my S2 223) is one of the best factory triggers on the market. It is 2 stage, 3 position safety and breaks very clean @ about 3 lbs. Unfortunately you can't tune them much lighter than that. A smith might be able to adjust the spring but I can shoot it fine @ 3lbs.\

S2 Vanguards have plastic stocks which is OK for my 223 for the time being, but it will be getting upgraded to a B&C Medalist before long.

 

[boattailed bandit]

Thanks for all the info guys, this is something I have been wondering for a while and wanted to get some experienced advice. So as is custom for me, im gonna turn this into a whole other thread. In that price range I also like the Rem 700 SPS and some of the Savage models. One thing I liked about the vanguard was what appeared to be a thicker profiled barrel. Im not wanting a heavy barrel, more of a varmint contour. Both the SPS and Savage models have regular sporter barrels from what I can tell for the 270 caliber. I like that there are so many options for the Rem 700 out there and I know that savage is catching up. Ive also heard really good things about savage out of the box accuracy. I like the 700 action and look, but from what I have heard QC has went down. Can anyone give any input as to the better option between the two or if there is another option I should look into for around the same money? Lookin for 600 or less and would prefer a varmint contour.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well for one thing, the Vanguard definitely has a better trigger than the 700 hands down. Some guys like the Savage Accumark triggers, but I don't. You should get to a gun store and feel these triggers. The look of the Vanguard action is almost identical to the 700. Same basic profile, not quite as long but has a longer ejection port. It has a one piece ported bolt which the 700 does not. it also has an integrated recoil lug which the 700 does not.

I can't comment much on the Savages, but my pick would be the Vanguard.

 

[Jud96]

Thanks for all the info guys, this is something I have been wondering for a while and wanted to get some experienced advice. So as is custom for me, im gonna turn this into a whole other thread. In that price range I also like the Rem 700 SPS and some of the Savage models. One thing I liked about the vanguard was what appeared to be a thicker profiled barrel. Im not wanting a heavy barrel, more of a varmint contour. Both the SPS and Savage models have regular sporter barrels from what I can tell for the 270 caliber. I like that there are so many options for the Rem 700 out there and I know that savage is catching up. Ive also heard really good things about savage out of the box accuracy. I like the 700 action and look, but from what I have heard QC has went down. Can anyone give any input as to the better option between the two or if there is another option I should look into for around the same money? Lookin for 600 or less and would prefer a varmint contour.

I haven't had any problems with Remingtons quality lately. My Dad and I bought Remington 700 ADL Varmints last year and my cousin just bought a Remington 700 stainless and all are 100% fine. You can pickup a Remington 700 ADL Varmint for $550. This will be the best $550 rifle you can get. The Savage Varmint rifles are also right around the same price and also very accurate. Both the Remington and Savage have heavy barrels. Not sure one the actual size of the Savage barrel but the Remington measuers .820 at the end and is 26" long with a 1:8.125 twist.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

You are not going to get heavy varmint barrels in 270 Win in any factory rifle. The S2 Varmint chambering are 223, 22-250 and 308.

 

[boattailed bandit]

I didn't figure I'd be able to get a varmint contour without it being custom. Just wanted to see for sure. I wonder if any make a thicker contour sporter barrel. Just looking for a little more rigidity.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

All the factory sporters are going to be in the same ball park contour range. I have a Broughton Light Varmint Sporter on my 6-284 (S&W M1500, same action as the Vanguard) and it is a stout barrel with a muzzle diameter of .720 at its 26" finish length. It barely fits in the B&C medalist stock.

If you want a factory rifle in 270 Win, just buy it and shoot it and learn on it. After a couple thousand rounds you will be ready for a new barrel and have a lot better idea of what you want.