Yes 700s until something better came along. The polls show trends.
Custom actions, are they worth it?
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Yes 700s until something better came along. The polls show trends.
Yeah, you're right. I don't need a custom rifle but I still want it. It satisfies my crave and makes me happy. Just looking and touching them most of the make my day.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I don't need them. I do just fine with the actions and rifles I have built for me. Shooting Matches is a different story. I am not going there to start with. My ranges have been in the 500yds to start with. Most of the time I can close the gap between me and the animal to at lease that range. It's not often I had to make shots more than 500yds. I a couple of rifles I either have or being build I am looking to move out to 700yds. That will be done on P. Dog and Ground Squirrels.
I finally getting my reload shack built. I don't think I will get to far into reloading this time. My stay in Montana is coming to a close in Mid January.
I am about ready to sheet and close the walls in on the outside. To many irons in the fire at one time.
Correction: "just looking and touching them makes my day".
Bob, you do realize that when you cut the threads off, in effect, you changed the harmonics, eh? Just think about how little you have to move a tuner to adjust a load. I am not discounting the action change, but I would question if the stocks were the same and all the other details. I have done this previously myself going from a Stolle Panda benchrest barrel to a Rem 700 that was non-trued, same reamer used on both barrels, same stocks etc. Humbling. I recently tried to "fix" a barrel going from a non-trued 700 to a Stole Panda, cut off enough to get the muzzle dia and throat dia the same, no improvement in groups, it is a 3/8" barrel.
We all have our personal favorites on custom actions, mine is Borden, Stolle, and Bat, established integrity with a long track record, from owners that set the standards in "Customers being the Key" to their business success, I like the Tried and True, been burned too many times.
I go into all of these details because many of the members just can not afford a total custom rig. With Bidononomics hitting use all HARD, then throw in a young family that sucks up most of the disposable income, the younger/middle age guys do not have the funds to get into this longer-range accuracy game thinking that it takes an ungodly amount of money. The older guys that know how to tune loads, need to teach the younger generations something other than throwing BIG money in a gun. Learn the advanced reloading, learn the basics in wind reading, bench techniques, Bi Pod techniques, and it is nothing short of Amazing what factory rifles are capable of that are being made today, but they need bedding, free-floating, mag boxes floated, muzzle break in the least before the rifle is ever fired the first round.
My point was you were $600 high on the action price. Also you say you are having a couple rifles built. What actions? If a custom that can take shouldered prefits then you could use the same stock, trigger, rings and scope on them if it was a custom action and just swap barrels. Saves you way more than $600.
Phil Rizzo
Well-Known Member
There is no way to measure the loading components saved getting acceptable performing loads with a high-end setup. And I can promise it will digest more choices with a suitable result.
To me the process begins with the choice of action.
If you save a few hundred there but never get a great result, after a bunch of rounds shot trying, you are back to square one.
Eliminating variables within a guy's personal limits is a factor, just like the performance required.
To me the process begins with the choice of action.
If you save a few hundred there but never get a great result, after a bunch of rounds shot trying, you are back to square one.
Eliminating variables within a guy's personal limits is a factor, just like the performance required.
Phil, if you take a non-trued Remington, re-spring the firing pin, use a custom recoil lug, put it in a pillar bedded laminate stock, free-float the barrel with some kind of muzzle brake, free-float the magazine box, it is going to shoot very tiny groups with Brux, Krieger quality barrels, where the gunsmith indicates the barrel in with incredible run out on a finished throat.
Anyone that owns a Bat, Stole, Borden action that does not love them every time they close the bolt, has some kind of brain damage.
The Gunsmith should bore scope the barrel from end to end first, and can make a video of the bore with the teslong if/when problems are found. Another major consideration the best of the best of gunsmiths make is to use a 32" Grizzley rod and check the bore from uniformity from end to end. High spots are sometimes taken off by casting a lead lap, using grease and Al Oxide. When this is done, on the chamber and barrel evaluation, barrels shoot like a house afire. It is given that rough barrels and barrels that are not uniform in the throat to the muzzle are culled Immediately with no other consideration to even consider chambering.
When barrels are evaluated/culled, the machinist indicates the barrel into the .00001, all of a sudden, you realize that the foundation is getting that bullet started straight on the barrel. Much of the other details are nothing more than window dressing, pride of ownership, and chasing one's tail on BS tooling that satisfies our Compulsive nature to spend money on a hobby we love.
I love my custom actions, but fear that we are killing our sport making it nothing more than a money game with "Look at Me, Look at Me" type of guns, stressing appearance vs shooting/reloading, and wind reading skills.
We need to stress the Gunsmithing skills needed to get the best accuracy first and foremost. Then we need to preach advanced reloading skills, Bench Skills, and basic wind reading skills.
To this very day, with all my customs and trued actions, for the life of me, I can not understand how a Savage with custom barrel in a laminate stock shoots to the degree that it does, it boggles the mind. I fear that I have been a victim of the "talking heads" BS for decades, marketing, and a lot of Snake Oil cleaning products.
Anyone that owns a Bat, Stole, Borden action that does not love them every time they close the bolt, has some kind of brain damage.
The Gunsmith should bore scope the barrel from end to end first, and can make a video of the bore with the teslong if/when problems are found. Another major consideration the best of the best of gunsmiths make is to use a 32" Grizzley rod and check the bore from uniformity from end to end. High spots are sometimes taken off by casting a lead lap, using grease and Al Oxide. When this is done, on the chamber and barrel evaluation, barrels shoot like a house afire. It is given that rough barrels and barrels that are not uniform in the throat to the muzzle are culled Immediately with no other consideration to even consider chambering.
When barrels are evaluated/culled, the machinist indicates the barrel into the .00001, all of a sudden, you realize that the foundation is getting that bullet started straight on the barrel. Much of the other details are nothing more than window dressing, pride of ownership, and chasing one's tail on BS tooling that satisfies our Compulsive nature to spend money on a hobby we love.
I love my custom actions, but fear that we are killing our sport making it nothing more than a money game with "Look at Me, Look at Me" type of guns, stressing appearance vs shooting/reloading, and wind reading skills.
We need to stress the Gunsmithing skills needed to get the best accuracy first and foremost. Then we need to preach advanced reloading skills, Bench Skills, and basic wind reading skills.
To this very day, with all my customs and trued actions, for the life of me, I can not understand how a Savage with custom barrel in a laminate stock shoots to the degree that it does, it boggles the mind. I fear that I have been a victim of the "talking heads" BS for decades, marketing, and a lot of Snake Oil cleaning products.
Maybe I'm missing the point some people are making. Most do not go through the full custom process with the objective to save $$$. You can buy a very nice factory rifle off the shelf and maybe upgrade your trigger and be very successful hunting most any critter out there. We all have our wants and needs. Sometimes you have a desire to build something that is just very special to you. The cost is really not driving your decisions.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
If it's satisfying to you, not just the end result BUT THE PROCESS OF GETTING THERE , I'd think that's all that matters. They probably won't do anything that can't be done cheaper.
Sort of like handloading. I'm not a precision level shooter like many of the folks on here, and I don't have the highest end equipment….I know full well that for hunting purposes I have yet to have done anything in the field with my handloads that couldn't have been done with factory ammo and with MUCH less time and money invested in the whole endeavour. But that wouldn't be nearly as rewarding, gratifying, satisfying!
Sort of like handloading. I'm not a precision level shooter like many of the folks on here, and I don't have the highest end equipment….I know full well that for hunting purposes I have yet to have done anything in the field with my handloads that couldn't have been done with factory ammo and with MUCH less time and money invested in the whole endeavour. But that wouldn't be nearly as rewarding, gratifying, satisfying!
Phil Rizzo
Well-Known Member
4 in my family shot m700's in the 70-80-90's that got great results, for our demands.
That was mostly 400 or less. Good bedding and some trigger work with a VariX-3 after Redfields!
Loading our own was a given, Sierra/Nosler.
We practiced on creatures a lot smaller than deer, year 'round.
when I tried to go up a notch, no GS would rebarrel without blueprinting first.
The Grand Experiment began…And that's how I ended up here.
That was mostly 400 or less. Good bedding and some trigger work with a VariX-3 after Redfields!
Loading our own was a given, Sierra/Nosler.
We practiced on creatures a lot smaller than deer, year 'round.
when I tried to go up a notch, no GS would rebarrel without blueprinting first.
The Grand Experiment began…And that's how I ended up here.
I haven't read all of the replies but I would say for me, yes. I debated over a Remington action or a Mack Brothers. I bought the Mack Brothers. I love the bolt release position. The bolt is very smooth. What I really like is when I put a rail on and mounted the scope I had to dial 2 clicks windage and exactly 20 moa to make up for the cant in the rail. Some factory mounting holes are not in line with the bore which is an issue. If I build again, I'll likely buy another Mack Brothers or a Bighorn. I like the idea of the articulating bolt head.
"No gunsmith would barrel without Blue printing first."
We started blueprinting 700s in 1987 when an Ohio benchrest champion won the State Champion benchrest match with a trued 700. From then on, it turned out to be a money-making gig. There is a world of differences in how gunsmiths "true" actions. I had one tell me not long ago, he tried 5 in one morning, $250 a pop.
Gunsmiths that indicate in the barrels in the way that I explained, do away with a LOT of BS. I learned much of this from a guy who built Olympic rifles and did R&D for gun companies around the world. I watched the man at work.
He took a barrel off a new 40X 22 Rim fire, and put it on my Ruger 10/22, fajen stock with an Olympic chamber in the barrel. 10 shots with a bullet hole group at 80 yards, CCI green tag, Leupold 36x.
So, when you try and go up a notch from using a 700 or other action, Cull your gunsmiths on their machining skill sets and their attention to detail, and get ready for the shock of your life. If he does not bore scope the barrel before chambering, hang up the phone. Never depend on the barrel maker to do all the QC on the barrel.
Phil, who can pull an audit on a gunsmith's chambering job? You only have small indications of attention to detail and pride in workmanship that a man takes in his work. The chamber in how straight it is with the bore axis is the foundation to the whole rifle.
We started blueprinting 700s in 1987 when an Ohio benchrest champion won the State Champion benchrest match with a trued 700. From then on, it turned out to be a money-making gig. There is a world of differences in how gunsmiths "true" actions. I had one tell me not long ago, he tried 5 in one morning, $250 a pop.
Gunsmiths that indicate in the barrels in the way that I explained, do away with a LOT of BS. I learned much of this from a guy who built Olympic rifles and did R&D for gun companies around the world. I watched the man at work.
He took a barrel off a new 40X 22 Rim fire, and put it on my Ruger 10/22, fajen stock with an Olympic chamber in the barrel. 10 shots with a bullet hole group at 80 yards, CCI green tag, Leupold 36x.
So, when you try and go up a notch from using a 700 or other action, Cull your gunsmiths on their machining skill sets and their attention to detail, and get ready for the shock of your life. If he does not bore scope the barrel before chambering, hang up the phone. Never depend on the barrel maker to do all the QC on the barrel.
Phil, who can pull an audit on a gunsmith's chambering job? You only have small indications of attention to detail and pride in workmanship that a man takes in his work. The chamber in how straight it is with the bore axis is the foundation to the whole rifle.
How many guys are ditching their custom actions when the rifle won't shoot like they want? Not many. Tells you (OP) it has little to do with the action. I think it's funny how some guys claim a custom action equals ultimate accuracy. I will tell you if my "full custom" aint shooting, I'm deff not blaming the action. Same with if my 700 builds are shooting excellent, I'm deff not claiming it's because of the action.
I also think the "for a few hundred dollars more, you can get a custom action" is funny. I'm not fancy by any means. If I can get a trued up 700 for a few hundo cheaper than a "custom" than I just paid for my brass and dies baby!!!
I also think the "for a few hundred dollars more, you can get a custom action" is funny. I'm not fancy by any means. If I can get a trued up 700 for a few hundo cheaper than a "custom" than I just paid for my brass and dies baby!!!
