Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[Mike D Texas]

That is part of the point of using smaller chamberings for big game. With today's bullet designs they are much more effective than yesteryears bullets.
The two main reasons given for lack of practice is money and recoil. The .223 solves both. An average hunter can effectively hit within 2-4 inches of where they aim 90% of the time, given a bit of practice. You don't have to be an exceptional shooter. Everyone I have put behind a small caliber rifle is much more effective on target than they are with their bigger guns. Contrary to popular belief deer and elk are not armor-plated. Their vital zone is quite large as well. Put a bullet in there and they die. Period.

As for the "conventional wisdom" regarding a bigger bullet bieng able to compensate for poor shot placement, that is just BS. A small caliber, frangible bullet is actually more effective if you gut shoot them than a large caliber bonded or monometal bullet. And there is plenty of evidence that they will also penetrate bone, so that argument is also invalid. As I said to open, bullets have come a long way.

What about larger caliber cartridges that use frangible type bullets. Logic says that is a small fragmenting bullet works well that a larger one would work better; larger wound track, more fragmentation, etc…..

 

[Hugnot]

I shoot lots of 75 ELDM's from 7.7 twist .22-.250's at up to 3250 fps out of short action bolt guns. I would not consider these bullets on anything weighing more than 50 pounds. When I shot deers most of them were diagonal hits requiring up to 2 feet of penetration & would have no confidence in the 75 ELDM's - these bullets expand well on shoe box size rodents. A solid copper bullet of 60 plus or so grains having about same length as the 75 ELDM would be my choice.

 

[memtb]

What about larger caliber cartridges that use frangible type bullets. Logic says that is a small fragmenting bullet works well that a larger one would work better; larger wound track, more fragmentation, etc…..

Using logic and common sense will get you nowhere!

Perhaps we will soon see a post about hunting dangerous game with the 5MM's/17's! memtb

 

[436]

Well, I wasted 10 minutes of my life reading this thread and no one posted load data for their deer killing .223 rifle. There was a target with King Kong or something like that written on it.

So, what would you be shooting them in? I'll give you a great load if the barrel isn't too short. Cheers

 

[xsn10s]

What about larger caliber cartridges that use frangible type bullets. Logic says that is a small fragmenting bullet works well that a larger one would work better; larger wound track, more fragmentation, etc…..

There are plenty of posts on that. I already provided links to 6mm and 6.5mm. This forum as well as the net is filled with them. As well as load data for .223/ 5.56 using said bullets.

 

[xsn10s]

Like all bullets use them in the velocities/ parameter where they work the best.

 

[Mike D Texas]

There are plenty of posts on that. I already provided links to 6mm and 6.5mm. This forum as well as the net is filled with them. As well as load data for .223/ 5.56 using said bullets.

I've read all of those threads on RS.

For me, someone that does not have ready access to Elk, Mule Deer, etc…..there's NO WAY I'm trusting a multi thousand $$ hunt or burning a 10 year draw tag to a .224 caliber bullet and likely not less than anything less than .308 caliber with .338 preferred on elk.

I know you've seen Brozs' thread on his bull at LRO.. Are you willing to take a lifetime opportunity on a 7x7 elk in 25-30mph winds with a .224/.243/.264 caliber cartridge? I will say emphatically for me HELL NO.

 

[xsn10s]

I've read all of those threads on RS.

For me, someone that does not have ready access to Elk, Mule Deer, etc…..there's NO WAY I'm trusting a multi thousand $$ hunt or burning a 10 year draw tag to a .224 caliber bullet and likely not less than anything less than .308 caliber with .338 preferred on elk.

I know you've seen Brozs' thread on his bull at LRO.. Are you willing to take a lifetime opportunity on a 7x7 elk in 25-30mph winds with a .224/.243/.264 caliber cartridge? I will say emphatically for me HELL NO.

LOL well the whole purpose of this thread was to illustrate what the 77 TMK and like bullets are capable of. Not to take things to the extreme since other big game animals were also mentioned. As a student of terminal ballistics I keep open to other people's findings. I've had a conversation on the phone with Broz on another topic and highly value his opinion. But I will also say at one time people poo pooed using bullets like Bergers on big game including deer and elk. Even Berger did.

 

[xsn10s]

Bull elk at 270 yards with 22-250 and 88 gr ELDM's. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/page-110#post-2811575

 

[xsn10s]

Another bull using 88 ELDM out of a 22 CM at 489 yards. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/page-240#post-3305887

 

[xsn10s]

Here's a video featuring Wayne Van Zwoll taking a beautiful bull at 600 yards using a 129 SST. I always felt that it was too light a load for taking elk. But I'm not going to argue with his success. I'll take note of the bullet and cartridge performance.

 

[VinceMule]

22-243 AI = 77g TMK at 3550 shooting bug holes

22-6 Rem AI= 77g TMK at 3650 and never touch a full length sizer, amazing accuracy, max load is 3800 fps

 

[sierracharlie338]

I've read all of those threads on RS.

For me, someone that does not have ready access to Elk, Mule Deer, etc…..there's NO WAY I'm trusting a multi thousand $$ hunt or burning a 10 year draw tag to a .224 caliber bullet and likely not less than anything less than .308 caliber with .338 preferred on elk.

I know you've seen Brozs' thread on his bull at LRO.. Are you willing to take a lifetime opportunity on a 7x7 elk in 25-30mph winds with a .224/.243/.264 caliber cartridge? I will say emphatically for me HELL NO.

Mike I would venture to guess that you and I have been killing deer for many years at this point in Texas with everything from 22-338 calibers. For me, I have spent way more time killing whitetails with a 223 over the years than I have anything else because of the number of deer that I've helped cull for ranches. Just happened to be the tool used for the job at that time.

All that said, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement here. We don't get the opportunity to go in the back yard and kill mulies, antelope or elk like a lot of those guys on RS. So no I **** sure wouldn't be taking a 223 on a multi thousand dollar hunt. I'm reaching for nothing short of my 30 Nosler or 338 Lapua, plain and simple. But when it come to the ole typical Texas whitetails I might be reaching for the plinker instead of the boomer!

 

[Buzzsaw]

So, what would you be shooting them in? I'll give you a great load if the barrel isn't too short. Cheers

22" tikka t3x .223