Berger VLD pencil through Elk in Cold?

[orkan]

Wait here guys… I'm going to go shoot some deer with a 20gr vmax 17cal because hornady never said I shouldn't.

Then it is pretty hard to blame the consumer for choosing or using the wrong bullet.

Come on man. Manufacturers shouldn't be required to prove a negative. Historically, they market what it CAN do and should be used for… not what it can't.

 

[Pdvdh]

Is there any advertising or advise from the manufacture claiming this?

Of course not. Nor does Burger advertise that their production process, and QA/QC excludes anything to do with the interior dimensions of their bullets. Their ONLY QA/QC performed pertains to the exterior dimensions of their bullets. So if a bullet's tip is solid copper jacket, no opening whatsoever, it passes QA/QC.

How could anyone could be surprised that some Burgers perform like FMJs?

The guy that recovered his non-expanded 7mm Burger from the elk called Burger to discuss the incident. Burger assured him they do NOTHING to monitor the interior of any of their target style bullets. The tips could all be closed. Since inspection of the interior of the jacketed tip is NOT performed prior to shipping out bullets.

 

[mmacfive]

I am in agreement with you. I also choose a different bullet for in close elk where a big bone might get hit. Or, very heaviy for caliber.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Then it is pretty hard to blame the consumer for choosing or using the wrong bullet.

I'd like to see examples of different manufacturers .308 bullet advertisements that specifically say whether or not to use them on Buffalo at close range

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I advertise my bullets for small game, medium game, big game, and dangerous game. I don't get anymore specific than that. I think there are others that show size of animals recommended for the given bullet.

I used a 17 Hornet in Africa for impala to prove a point, but I have never recommended using it for big game. So, as a manufacture I understand not wanting to limit potential sales. I have watched over the years guys get blasted for using the wrong bullet, or being told that it was not a bullet failure when they took a shot that was not perfect broadside, but a shooter error for doing so. I think in the scenario of current discussion, the consumer is choosing a bullet advertised for big game hunting not knowing that there could be an issue if heavy bone or muscle is encountered. Or for that matter a limit to the high velocity that the bullet will perform properly.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have to add. If this stuff was easy, there wouldn't be any discussion of bullet failures. I can say that it is all consuming trying to get it right. I am sure it is the same for other manufactures. I would like to think so anyway.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I'm not blasting anyone or any particular bullet, just stating my opinion. We've all got to pick what we use based on what we expect from the bullet. Some bullets are better suited to a given task than others.

We as hunters often disagree because when it comes to killing game no two shots are exactly the same and different people have different criteria of good bullet performance.

 

[Pdvdh]

I'd like to see examples of different manufacturers .308 bullet advertisements that specifically say whether or not to use them on Buffalo at close range

That would require some research. I've found bullet application recommendations from bullet manufacturers over the past 50 years. Some still do.

Here's the Mother of all Burger surficial splash wounds. Read post 195, by SHRTSHTR in the thread linked below. A 300gr 338 OTM fired from a 338 LAI splashed on the onside shoulder of a doe antelope. Bullet never reached the interior of rib cage. Failed to enter the boiler room. On an itty bitty doe antelope.

Berger HUNTING Bullets

about 5 or so years ago there was a guy here (Jim) who could not get his bullets to shoot well out of a 264, he called berger and they got him to walt. walt was flying to somewhere do not remember where, but he change his flight next air port and came here to teach him how to load thevld...

www.longrangehunting.com

Last I heard from SHRTSHTR, he also, had lost the luv for Burgers and was moving on.

 

[Pdvdh]

I'm not here to bash any bullet manufacturer either. Just providing real life user experiences. When they get that bad, it just sounds like bashing.

 

[mmacfive]

Well said.

 

[mmacfive]

Wait, wut?

When I mentioned it was common knowledge that Bergers can explode and not penetrate or fail to expand and pencil through I was chastised for for lack of knowledge.

I'm totally confused now.

 

[Pdvdh]

Wait, wut?

When I mentioned it was common knowledge that Bergers can explode and not penetrate or fail to expand and pencil through I was chastised for for lack of knowledge.

I'm totally confused now.

Haha... Shame on you for getting it "right".

In spite of the cheerleaders.

 

[Moose47]

That's your personal choice/preference; NOT a clear choice for a

 

[Eagleye242]

I have a close friend who almost got terminated because of a Berger "Splash Wound" on a Grizzly Bear
Fortunately, his backup was carrying a 338 with 250 Partitions up the spout, which persuaded the
****ed off beast to die.
Some people have had good success with Bergers, but I have decided that there are many better
"Hunting" designs available. I shoot Berger in competition, not in the game field. Dave.