I Hate Hammer Bullets!

[CoSniper66]

Agreed, I can get 1/2

Moa out of Hornady or Nosler in every Decent rifle I own, don't overthink it, shoot more and you will outshoot your friends

 

[hydehunter]

I like and use Hammers, but I wish there was more info on the BC of each bullet. I like how certain companies tell you the BC at different velocities. Just helps if you're loading it in a 30-06 compared to a 300 RUM for example. I still verify drops either way but I wouldn't mind seeing more data on the BC.
Will add I was hesitant to start with Hammers because I was worried how hard it would be to do load development as I had never shot a copper. It ended up being very straight forward and only took 20 rounds.

Tidus56 it only took me 7 rounds to get a great load with my .06 and I am happy

 

[naja302]

I have bought a ton of hammers and have used them in several rifles with great results.

I do find myself going back to bergers for a true long range setup because the BC is so much better.

It's been said before but the low BC is definitely a turn off. (and the BC's I've found from drops are ALMOST always significantly lower than advertised.

Higher BC increases my effective range and this is a long range hunting forum after all.

One final thought: I don't magically get an extra couple hundred FPS with these bullets like apparently everyone else does.

That being said I did just go on an international hunt and elected to take my 300 WM with 181 hammers going 3175 FPS, but I limited myself to 600 yards.

Hated that limit the whole hunt

 

[Muddyboots]

Pretty gutsy to build a gun around a bullet you don't have experience with.

I built the infamous .270 Win (Thors Hammer) last summer exactly on that premise. I sent 2 rounds loaded with 156HH (which I had never shot from any rifle beforehand) to Preferred Barrel with throat dimensions I wanted to max out a 700LA max COAL. It came back perfect and the .270TH delivered much higher velocities that I thought likely nor anyone else here on LRH that "entered" the max ladder test I did on LRH just to have some fun. Though @Calvin45 virtually nailed it with guess of 3277! Not sure of his crystal ball but it was close at max of 3284! I had shot the 117HH in an old Savage 110C that had shorted max COAL but I had faith in the product for accuracy and terminal performance so I built the rifle specifically for this heavier bullet that required 1:8 twist. The rifle shoots sub 1/2 MOA and I killed my biggest buck this fall. Bullet performed perfectly. Was it a gamble? Maybe to some but I had faith in the QC of the product and was comfortable doing it.

 

[Gunslinger 117]

Steve,
I've been shooting Barnes sense the Barnes X. I now using the TTSX. Until just recently I've never lost a deer with Barnes. It put him on the ground just like every other shot. But that one got up and got outta there, never to be found.
165gr ttsx from a 300WM.
I can't say it was the bullet that's at fault. I'm sure I just missed the spot.
Convince me why I should use your bullet, other than Barnes are in short supply.

Now that Sierra owns Barnes look for their scarcity to change.

 

[RamTruckMan]

There seems to be need for those who hate Hammer Bullets to have a place to vent. So, I decided it would be a good idea to make a place for that to happen. There is no need to hold back here. Let it out. Nobody has to be sly in starting threads that are anti Hammers by saying it is about more choices. Just let it out here. This is a safe place to do it. It is pretty evident that most who hate Hammer Bullets have not used them but have formed a hatred just the same. Let us know how you got this hatred. We don't learn anything about our bullets this way, but we might learn something about marketing. If there are those that hate Hammer Bullets that have used them, please post here. We do learn from these instances and will use that information to get better.

I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets. I am willing to take what comes here and I will monitor the thread and I will handle any defense needed. I don't want this to turn into one side vs the other and have the thread shut down due to infighting.

Let's go.

Steve - you aren't going to get the input you want because most critics of Hammer bullets get banned from this site, yet your fanbase can do whatever they want with no consequences. You criticize hammer, you get banned. This is my opinion, but I know others share it. Here is some honest criticism:

1. Anytime another highly respected individual in the industry criticizes either monos or bcs, or your bullets performance you put them down to build yourself up. It is very off putting. Brian Litz and the guy who made the video posted by Feenix is an example. You come across as an arrogant A hole a lot of times when you could let your product speak itself.

2. You are always down playing BCs. No other bullet manufacturer makes excuses for their BCs like you do. It varies from rifle to rifle, you can never get them accurate etc. I NEVER hear another manufacturer do that. They post a relatively accurate BC on their website and we all make adjustments in our Ballistics software. Its ridiculous that you continue to do so. Just say my bullets BCs suck, they weren't meant for long range hunting, accept it and move on. I do believe that you intentionally posted higher BCs than were realistic on your site to appeal to the LRH crowd, but that is just my opinion, its hard to prove intent.

3. Your silence or smart A comments in threads where your fanbase is acting inappropriately is just as damning as you joining in and saying those things. It comes across as if you know they are defending you and you approve of the behavior.

4. I don't see it as hate for hammer bullets, I see it as hate for you and your fanbase based on behavior. Just look at this thread, you have supporters defending critical comments even though you asked them not to. Its absurd.
You can see every body is scared to be truly honest or critical for fear of getting banned. It almost always leads to a confrontation and a ban. Guys are tip toeing around the issues.

5. You get extremely defensive anytime there is criticism…you say you can take it and that you want it, but your behavior suggests otherwise sometimes.

Just for creating an account and voicing this I know my time on here is limited and I am guessing this post will be deleted. Just some honest thoughts, from some redneck that owns a lot of guns and shoots a lot of stuff…

 

[Rich Coyle]

Well this is an interesting turn of events, but not so sure how much is going to be learned from it. I personally have not shot any hammer bullets. In fact had never heard of them in any way shape or form until I started here. Have done some research on them and from what I can see they don't really perform any better than the quality mainstream bullets. It's hard to improve on 1/2 MOA groups using Federal, Sig Sauer, Sierra and Nosler especially at the inflated prices for the Hammers. Thus, I have nothing good to say, or bad to say except about the price. For those of you who love them, have at it. For those of you that hate them there has to be a reason why? For those of us who have never tried them out there is no reason to either love or hate them. In my case I have no reason to even try them out so will not squander my hard earned money to chase a rainbow that doesn't exist. That is all that I have to say on the matter.

Why post on this thread, then?

 

[spladi]

There seems to be need for those who hate Hammer Bullets to have a place to vent. So, I decided it would be a good idea to make a place for that to happen. There is no need to hold back here. Let it out. Nobody has to be sly in starting threads that are anti Hammers by saying it is about more choices. Just let it out here. This is a safe place to do it. It is pretty evident that most who hate Hammer Bullets have not used them but have formed a hatred just the same. Let us know how you got this hatred. We don't learn anything about our bullets this way, but we might learn something about marketing. If there are those that hate Hammer Bullets that have used them, please post here. We do learn from these instances and will use that information to get better.

I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets. I am willing to take what comes here and I will monitor the thread and I will handle any defense needed. I don't want this to turn into one side vs the other and have the thread shut down due to infighting.

Let's go.

When I do hear derogatory comments, they are often from people whom I usually regard as "not really capable of making the profoundly positive or negative statement factually " but from hearsay etc. or are derived haphazardly by themselves.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Steve - you aren't going to get the input you want because most critics of Hammer bullets get banned from this site, yet your fanbase can do whatever they want with no consequences. You criticize hammer, you get banned. Thats what a lot of people are saying on other forums. Here is some honest criticism:

1. Anytime another highly respected individual in the industry criticizes either monos or bcs, or your bullets performance you put them down to build yourself up. It is very off putting. Brian Litz and the guy who made the video posted by Feenix is an example. You come across as an arrogant A hole a lot of times when you could let your product speak itself.

2. You are always down playing BCs. No other bullet manufacturer makes excuses for their BCs like you do. It varies from rifle to rifle, you can never get them accurate etc. I NEVER hear another manufacturer do that. They post a relatively accurate BC on their website and we all make adjustments in our Ballistics software. Its ridiculous that you continue to do so. Just say my bullets BCs suck, they weren't meant for long range hunting, accept it and move on. I do believe that you intentionally posted higher BCs than were realistic on your site to appeal to the LRH crowd, but that is just my opinion, its hard to prove intent.

3. Your silence or smart A comments in threads where your fanbase is acting inappropriately is just as damning as you joining in and saying those things. It comes across as if you know they are defending you and you approve of the behavior.

4. I don't see it as hate for hammer bullets, I see it as hate for you and your fanbase based on behavior. Just look at this thread, you have supporters defending critical comments even though you asked them not to. Its absurd.
You can see every body is scared to be truly honest or critical for fear of getting banned. It almost always leads to a confrontation and a ban. Guys are tip toeing around the issues.

5. You get extremely defensive anytime there is criticism…you say you can take it and that you want it, but your behavior suggests otherwise sometimes.

Just for creating an account and voicing this I know my time on here is limited and I am guessing this post will be deleted. Just some honest thoughts, from some redneck that owns a lot of guns and shoots a lot of stuff…

I met an artist who said, "The genius is in the brevity." You could learn from him. All I read from you is hearsay.

I like facts. List some of the folks who have been banned because they were negative about Hammer bullets, please.

 

[btap1991]

I will take anything. It doesn't have to be constructive.

I don't see how anyone could knock a post of a business trying to get better.
Any business that isn't trying to be better soon won't be

 

[RamTruckMan]

I met an artist who said, "The genius is in the brevity." You could learn from him. All I read from you is hearsay.

I like facts. List some of the folks who have been banned because they were negative about Hammer bullets, please.

You are part of the problem. This is the problem @RockyMtnMT. Your boys are do everything they can to induce a fight that will lead to a ban…we are living in a time where everybody is trying to censor people. It comes across as if you and your fanbase are trying to shut people up and control the narrative.

 

[Don Titus]

I will say the same thing as a few others have said.

I really don't think hardly anyone "hates" hammer bullets, at least, I personally haven't seen anyone say anything like that. Hate is a rather strong word. The only complaint I have seen, which is legitimate, is bc, which for many of us that shoot 500-1200 yards for hunting purposes, is an unavoidable determent due to the specific design of your bullets, that is necessary for the proper function of your monolithic bullets. You have bullets that have a good bc to them, such as the 285 grain .338 cal with a .355 G7 (I own some), however the same gun that shoots that bullet can shoot several other bullets with G7's well over .400, of a similar weight, and the end result is much less wind drift and more retained velocity and energy in the same rifle at distance. But to avoid getting too technical, I digress.

Steve, you and I have talked before, both in p.m.'s and on the phone, and I use your bullets in a few rifles, they work great for their intended purpose, and you are very helpful with figuring out appropriate loads. However your bullets aren't currently the perfect solution for every rifle and every use, and there is nothing wrong with that! They do a good job at killing critters, and are easy to load for accuracy.

I think the part everyone "hates", is what has already been stated.

The drama is tiresome. They simply aren't the "perfect" bullet for everything, I have even heard you say something similar to this, and some people get extremely defensive about that. Pretty much all of us understand why your bullet's bc's aren't as high as many others, and pretty much everyone highly respects your reasoning behind it. What people don't respect is getting bombarded for saying it, that is all.

As far as for marketing and attempting to progress your business, I have my opinions. This will be my opinion on it, so it may not be worth much, but here it is. I think the best thing you can do, is stay neutral as much as possible. You sell a great product, a product that is now established, and functions as you state, nothing more, nothing less. I feel people that say it is the only bullet anyone should ever use for any type of hunting, and is perfect for absolutely every use, as well as people that would say it is a useless, terrible, and pointless bullet, should be distanced from your business. Extremes in either direction tend to cause many problems for businesses.

I do not believe you are at fault for any of the following, and a lot of this is stated in general, not specifically directed at your business, so please don't take it as that. As Americans, we don't like opinions, good or bad, to be forced upon us. Tell us what you offer, and your bullets will sell themselves, as they already have. Aggressive marketing or splashing of opinions everywhere can be very detrimental in the long run. It creates annoyance for educated people, people that just need the facts presented to them, and are fully capable of making their decisions. Heavy, aggressive marketing works well for the less "in the know" people, no doubt. However, that is generally not the market here. Again, I personally don't see you specifically doing this at all, so please don't take this as a personal attack, it is not, and I respect you and your business. It seems to be more other people that are overly aggressive and "pro hammer" that seem to be somewhat hurting your business image. I know this may be greatly out of your control as well, unfortunately.

As far as R&D, I probably won't say anything you don't already know or have already tried. But you have a good bullet design with your current line up, nothing needs to be changed for them. If you truly want to create the "Perfect" bullet, maintain your current line, but on the side I would be doing some testing. I would focus as hard as I could on researching and testing to finding a way to get a tipped type bullet to perform as your current bullets do to increase bc. Making your hollow point smaller to increase bc will undoubtedly reduce terminal performance, therefore, the only other way is to add a tip. If you could get your current bullet performance, but with the bc of some of the other manufacturers, I do believe you would have nearly the "perfect" bullet.

The bantering, arguing, jumpy, overly defensive bickering has got to stop, on EVERYONE's part. None of this is the purpose of Len's living room. We should be better than all this. I am not defending either side, and am not taking sides. I'm just annoyed of getting on this forum to relax, read and enjoy my passion, and just seeing a bunch of grown men bickering.

Well said…and, if I may add one thing, I am sick and tired of the overuse and inappropriate use of the adverb "hate" … "hate" is a personal term…can't we as adults just say we like or dislike a PRODUCT…come on folks!

 

[Rich Coyle]

You are part of the problem. This is the problem @RockyMtnMT. Your boys are do everything they can to induce a fight that will lead to a ban…we are living in a time where everybody is trying to censor people. It comes across as if you and your fanbase are trying to shut people up and control the narrative.

So then, you don't know anyone who is banned?

As far as censoring people, I couldn't care less about what someone posts. A disclaimer here: If I'm bothered by them I skip them.

 

[Alibiiv]

There seems to be need for those who hate Hammer Bullets to have a place to vent. So, I decided it would be a good idea to make a place for that to happen. There is no need to hold back here. Let it out. Nobody has to be sly in starting threads that are anti Hammers by saying it is about more choices. Just let it out here. This is a safe place to do it. It is pretty evident that most who hate Hammer Bullets have not used them but have formed a hatred just the same. Let us know how you got this hatred. We don't learn anything about our bullets this way, but we might learn something about marketing. If there are those that hate Hammer Bullets that have used them, please post here. We do learn from these instances and will use that information to get better.

I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets. I am willing to take what comes here and I will monitor the thread and I will handle any defense needed. I don't want this to turn into one side vs the other and have the thread shut down due to infighting.

Let's go.

Steve.................. how about "m a y b e............" you ship me a couple of hundred "free" .35 caliber 223gr Hammer Hunters, and...........some .277, 123gr Hammer Hunter bullets, and............. "m a y b e............." some of those Bushmaster bullets that you said were in the making just so I can try some and evaluate your product to determine if I can comment on Hammer bullets?????????????? Is that a plan or what!!!!???