New primed M118 cases stuffed with IMR4320 under Sierra 190 HPMK's tested 20 shots in 3 to 4 inches at 600 yards in 7.62 converted Garands. A little better in bolt action match riflesEveryone knows that LC Match brass is crap for concentricity in the neck and body, and the headspace is .005" smaller/shorter than the 1980 Rem 700 BDL Varmint I shot it through.
Hey you Made a convert out of your friend good jobOk guys, after reading this thread, you may be scratching your head and wondering if all the trouble JE and I are talking about is worth it. I will assure you it is not necessary if you want to shoot game at 400yds or less. If you want to shoot far it absolutely is. Allow me to share a story with you. The other day a friend of mine missed a deer. He asked me to go with him to check his rifle. He shoots a shelf rifle with factory loads from Wal-Mart. I loaded everything in the SxS and we went to where we have a range set up on our place. I put my rifle in since deer season was open. We sighted in his rifle without incident. He said "lets see you shoot that fancy rifle with those reloads you shoot". I said "ok, put up a clean target. He did, and I told him to get in the SxS. Started driving back toward camp. Went across the field we were in and kept going. When we got half way across the next one he asked if I was going to shoot or if I was chicken. I stopped, and ranged the target. 597. He said he couldn't even see it. Got my rifle, and down on my belly. Wind was 1mph right to left. I dialed 1.5Mils U and .1Mils R and let one fly. Then another. We drove back to the target and all he had to say was "Can you teach me?".
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I explained to him that the fact they hit right beside each other was irrelevant. What matters is the vertical. I would have also been happy if they had been 2-3" apart with no vertical. This is a good load. Once I finish load development in a hunting rifle I don't shoot groups any more with that load. Just a cold bore and a follow up. Target is 1" squares, and his rifle does not shoot this well @100. He was utterly amazed. I told him it is really no big deal, and not really that hard to do. It does take patience and attention to detail.
Does one method end up with bullets better centered in the bore when fired? If so, why?
Yes.we are going to see what we can do with the rifle he has now when it warms up a little. I have dies and components to work on it.Hey you Made a convert out of your friend good job
Does one method end up with bullets better centered in the bore when fired? If so, why?
In short, why are you disagreeing with my statement?I keep hearing, "the competitive guys full length size". I find the general statement somewhat misleading or overly broad. The statement suggests the comp guys are the same as the guy usually asking the question, as though it is apples to apples. Its not!
Yes, I full length on all hunting and some precision rifles. However, I like the bench folk I know, had a reamer ground to match the dies used or dies made to match the reamer used.
The very idea that you can shoot rounds in just any chamber and then FL size with just any SAAMI die and then get the magic dimensions that produce a combo that shoots bug holes is unrealistic. Although I will concede that uncle Jethro might have an O3-A3 that shoots bugholes.
In the real world the guys who are shooting for excellence have $$$$$ tied up in a rifle/scope/gear. To think they just threw a dart to buy dies is ^*+#~!
we all probably have our own thoughts on max growth tolerances for body to chamber, OA growth, as well as throat growth. I don't know any serious shooter who FL sizes regularly unless they have dies matched to their chambers or chambers matched to their dies. And unless all the stars align, SAAMI dies are not Going to do it. THE difference between a SAAMI FL die and a SAAMI Reamer when you have the max spec on the Chamber and the min spec on the die can be huge in body OD and length growth. Add to the built in differences inherent in the chambering process/set up from one smith to the next and cases can grow .010+ in length from FL SAAMI sizing to shooting and similar body growth. Ain't nobody shooting 1/8 to 1/4 moa or less with cases growing .008 or more (in any direction) with each firing.
I agree with everyone who says Prep-Prep-Prep. Doesn't matter how good your chamber/die relationship is, Garbage in. Garbage out.
Yes. Bullets are least deformed when entering the chamber throat as straight as possible. That said, even crooked ones indexed the same in the chamber can be very accurate.Does it matter after a bullet travels down a 30" barrel?