Lemon juice for cleaning brass

[birdiemc]

I've read how lots of folks like to use lemi shine, dawn, and water to clean brass. I didn't have any lemi shine so I checked to see what the active ingredient is, its citric acid. Found on a baking website how much lemon juice to use as a substitute for citric acid powder, ended up with a little over a tablespoon in a gallon of water with a tablespoon of dawn. Brass came out nice and clean and shiny. Haven't read where anybody uses lemon juice so just thought I would pass this along.

 

[mahnster]

Interesting. I'll have to remember this is if I run out of lemi shine for wet tumbling.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

I always use 91% alcohol bath as a final clean for my brass. Your post reminded me of a solution that I use to polish my brass body guitar, which is 1/3 each of alcohol, lemon juice and white vinegar.

 

[birdiemc]

My mom used to have me polish up her bronze candlesticks with ketchup when I was a kid, seems the vinegar was a good agent for getting the tarnish off. I searched for folks using vinegar and discovered that the internet "experts" think the world will stop turning if vinegar ever touches brass, while I tend to disagree with that I opted to try the lemon juice instead. But if you're using it on a guitar, which I would imagine isn't cheap, I'm betting it's probably just fine for brass cases.

 

[entoptics]

I've used food grade citric acid powder before, and it works great. Little bit cheaper than Lemi-Shine, but not sure if it's cheaper than lemon juice. It also does a great job of cleaning up a dishwasher.

My favorite cleaner is Citranox though. Nothing shines better, and it seems to "pacify" the surface, so tarnish doesn't come back as quickly. I'll often run citric acid powder in the first clean, with a bit of dish soap, then run the Citranox as a final step to wash off lube and polish the cases after sizing. About a teaspoon in a gallon is enough.

 

[birdiemc]

I've used food grade citric acid powder before, and it works great. Little bit cheaper than Lemi-Shine, but not sure if it's cheaper than lemon juice. It also does a great job of cleaning up a dishwasher.

My favorite cleaner is Citranox though. Nothing shines better, and it seems to "pacify" the surface, so tarnish doesn't come back as quickly. I'll often run citric acid powder in the first clean, with a bit of dish soap, then run the Citranox as a final step to wash off lube and polish the cases after sizing. About a teaspoon in a gallon is enough.

I kinda think I saw a post yesterday from a while where you had mentioned using citric acid powder which is what got me headed down this path in the first place.

 

[aushunter1]

I use citric acid powder in my ultrasonic cleaner for my brass & it does a pretty good job of cleaning overall, carbon removal is great but I have to admit it doesn't leave the brightest finish that can be had.

Still out of all the purpose made case cleaners the cheap citric acid works best!
6-9 minutes & its descaled & pretty shiny.

To me its more abut the carbon removal than actually making it shiny!

I would try that Citranox though if I could find some here in Aus.

 

[Vol1975]

Vinegar- soak for 6 hrs.

 

[bigedp51]

Homemade Firearm Cleaners & Lubricants
https://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

Chemical Case Cleaning Solutions

While tumbling cases in an abrasive media provides the best finish, extremely dirty cases can be decapped first (using a non-sizing die) and then washed in one of the following solutions. The final rinse in soapy water helps prevent tarnishing. All of these methods were approved by Frankford Arsenal and will not weaken your brass.

• A 5 percent solution of citric acid (available from your drugstore) and warm water for about 10 minutes. If your water is very hard increase the amount of citric acid. You can add some Dawn™ or Cascade™ dishwasher liquid soap (which does not contain ammonia--be careful some do), 409, or Awsome to the solution for extra grease cutting ability. Follow with a rinse in hot soapy water (Ivory™ works well) and allow to dry. Don't overuse the citric acid or the brass may discolor.
• A solution of 1 quart of white vinegar and 2 tablespoons of salt. Soak with some agitation for 15 to 20 minutes and follow with a rinse of soapy hot water and allow to dry.
• A solution of 1 quart of water, 1 cup white vinegar, 1/2 cup lemon juice, 1/4 cup laundry or dishwashing detergent, 1/8 cup salt. Soak with some agitation for 15 to 20 minutes and follow with a rinse of soapy hot water and allow to dry. This may leave brass with a slight pinkish cast which will disappear with a short tumble in media.
• Military arsenals use a heated 4 percent sulfuric acid dip with a little potassium dichromate added. The solution is heated until bubbles rise slowly without it boiling and the cases are dipped into it for 4 -5 minutes using a basket of copper screening or plastic. A final rinse using plain hot water is followed by hot water with Ivory™ soap in it and the cases are left to drain and dry. Because of the use of heated sulfuric acid this method is probably impractical for home use but is given here to show what can be safely used.

Cases which have been fired several times and which show signs of carbon build up internally can be rinsed in straight paint & varnish makers (P&VM) naphtha available at any paint store. Decap, soak for 5 - 10 minutes, drain, allow to air dry and then tumble as usual. Cases will be sparkling clean inside and out but not any shinier.

An interesting idea is to use an "air stone" and a small air pump from a fish aquarium tank to agitate the liquid cleaning solutions.

Thanks to Randy Wood for this tip.

Another case cleaning method is the use of an ultrasonic cleaning unit. These units are available from several online sources and the biggest problem is finding a reasonably priced unit with about a 2 liter capacity. While you can only clean small quantities of cases at a time this way they will be clean as new, inside and out. Once you've acquired the unit you'll need to also acquire a glass beaker of sufficient size for your use and make a cover and beaker holder.

Cut a piece of Plexiglas to cover the tank and cut a hole the size of your beaker (use a fly cutter and a drill press or jigsaw it out). Make a collar for the beaker out of plastic foam that fits very snugly so the beaker can be raised or lowered. You want the beaker to not sit on the pan of the cleaner.

Fill the cleaner tank with water and by adjusting the level of water in the tank, the liquid in the beaker, and depth of the beaker in the water it can be "tuned" so that the liquid in the beaker appears to boil while the water in the tank is calm. This has a major effect on how long it takes to clean the cases.

For cleaning you can use either of these procedures but the second one leaves the cases the shiniest.

24 minutes - 50-50 Vinegar and water + 1 drop dish soap per
8 ounces water Use cool water. Do not use hot water!!!
8 minutes - Baking Soda & water (1 grain BS per ounce of
water)
8 minutes - Hot Water
8 minutes - Distilled Water 24 minutes - 50-50 Vinegar and water + 1 Drop Dish Soap per
8 ounces water Use cool water. Do not use hot water!!!
6 minutes - Birchwood Casey Case Cleaner*
6 minutes - Hot Water
6 minutes - Distilled Water
* The Birchwood Casey case cleaner is listed as their "Brass Cartridge Case Cleaner # 33845"

 

[wonderman4]

Vinegar- soak for 6 hrs.

Not even on your best day. Vinegar can change the metallurgy of the brass if left this long. If you do use vinegar, limit it to 15 minutes at the very most. The only time I have ever used vinegar is dealing with some very dirty brass.

 

[Vol1975]

Not even on your best day. Vinegar can change the metallurgy of the brass if left this long. If you do use vinegar, limit it to 15 minutes at the very most.

Interesting. I'm not an expert on medal and what vinegar can do but I learned this from an old timer approximately 30 years ago and the amount of brass I've soaked overnight and shot is mind blowing. Guess I can't be to old to learn something.

 

[birdiemc]

Not even on your best day. Vinegar can change the metallurgy of the brass if left this long. If you do use vinegar, limit it to 15 minutes at the very most. The only time I have ever used vinegar is dealing with some very dirty brass.

Can you give a reference where I can read about vinegar changing the molecular structure of brass? I'm not doubting, I just always like reading about stuff like that...since vinegar is acid and citric acid is acid, I'd be interested to see if it has the same negative effect.

 

[wonderman4]

A paragraph from the link:

"The Chemistry
Both metals used in brass cases (copper and zinc) are soluble in acetic acid (vinegar). The salts, copper acetate and zinc acetate, are also soluble. Zinc is more soluble than copper so it dissolves faster. In addition a galvanic action occurs that cause copper to be dissolved and then redeposited on the surface at the expense of the zinc.

When you clean brass cases in a vinegar solution you change both the chemical and physical properties of the surface of the case. There have been comments about cases being too clean, primers hard to seat, deposits on mandrels, etc. When you change the surface by dissolving some of it and etching it these things will happen. Whether they happen to the point of being a problem becomes the issue.

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't use acetic acid or that there is anything wrong with Jason's approach. Anything used to clean brass chemically is going to have some effect on the surface and it sure beats trying to get residue out of the flash hole of a 17 Remington with a brush."

One of the links: https://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

Bottom line is do not use pure vinegar for 6 hours.

If you use a solution with 1 part vinegar to X parts water, that is different than just letting brass soak in vinegar for 6 hours.

I use citric acid diluted with water and a little dish washing soap (Dawn). Citric acid is available at most any grocery store that sells canning supplies.

 

[birdiemc]

A paragraph from the link:

"The Chemistry
Both metals used in brass cases (copper and zinc) are soluble in acetic acid (vinegar). The salts, copper acetate and zinc acetate, are also soluble. Zinc is more soluble than copper so it dissolves faster. In addition a galvanic action occurs that cause copper to be dissolved and then redeposited on the surface at the expense of the zinc.

When you clean brass cases in a vinegar solution you change both the chemical and physical properties of the surface of the case. There have been comments about cases being too clean, primers hard to seat, deposits on mandrels, etc. When you change the surface by dissolving some of it and etching it these things will happen. Whether they happen to the point of being a problem becomes the issue.

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't use acetic acid or that there is anything wrong with Jason's approach. Anything used to clean brass chemically is going to have some effect on the surface and it sure beats trying to get residue out of the flash hole of a 17 Remington with a brush."

One of the links: https://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

Bottom line is do not use pure vinegar for 6 hours.

If you use a solution with 1 part vinegar to X parts water, that is different than just letting brass soak in vinegar for 6 hours.

I use citric acid diluted with water and a little dish washing soap (Dawn). Citric acid is available at most any grocery store that sells canning supplies.

Wonderman you got me interested.
Looks like the folks manufacturing cartridge brass recommend avoiding acetic acid. Obviously the big thing I was missing is not all acids are created equally and the chemical composition of a particular acid reacts with cartridge brass in different ways. It seems acetic acid causes Dezincification in brass what I've found shows that it will leech the zinc out depositing copper onto the surface causing the copper to oxidize and turn green, like the statue of liberty.

"70/30 brass should not be used with acetic acid..."
https://www.azom.com/amp/article.aspx?ArticleID=4387

"C260 Cartridge brass is used in greater quantity than other copper-zinc alloys. It is the most ductile and has good to excellent corrosion resistance in many environments except where certain acids exist such as nitric, acetic, hydrochloric acid and ammonia/ammonia compounds. Easily machined and often clod formed.

Typical Industry Applications:

• Mechanical fasteners such as pins, rivets, grommets, eyelets, screws
• Decorative hardware
• Electrical components such as connectors, flashlight shells, lamp fixtures
• Ammunition shell casings"

https://www.industrial-metals.com/c260-cartridge-brass

"C26000 Cartridge Brass is the most ductile of the brasses and is used in greater quantity than any other copper-zinc alloy. C26000 has excellent to good corrosion resistance in most environments, but is not suitable for use with certain materials, such as acetic acid, moist ammonia or ammonia compounds, hydrochloric acid and nitric acid."
https://tkcopperandbrass.com/our-products/brass/#1507213956728-a488ab23-dcbc