270 lb Boar Down With Berger Grendel VLD-Hunting

[Double Naught Spy]

[ame]https://youtu.be/3TqQvIZ-W3E[/ame]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TqQvIZ-W3E&feature=youtu.be

A good boar to cull, my largest boar from a solo hunt. The Berger bullet did its job but again did not perform as expected. It way overpenetrated, which is unexpected given that it is supposed to be a frangible round that comes apart violently inside the animal.

 

[Zen Archery]

Big un!!!
Over penetrate? Like it didn't expand properly? Or what have you experienced/expected on exit wound? Being a curious george.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't think the VLD-Hunting expands so much as it is supposed to fragment violently, dumping energy. I may open this guy up this evening for a more thorough exam but what I know now is that he had a hole in his side with a diameter smaller than my index finger with a divergent trajectory. There was no apparent hydrostatic shock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8j-7D-bubQ

So the video says that the animal may not drop, but won't go far. Fair enough. Of course, I can't recall putting too many rounds through a hog like this that weren't Berger that didn't go very far either. They note that competitors' bullets are designed to go through the animal, but that is what I am seeing every time with Berger.

With Hornady SST or Berger, no doubt there is fragmentation and loss of bullet weight, but they are performing very similarly as near as I can tell despite the fact that they are supposedly so different.

 

[scrmblr1982cj8]

What is the expected performance of the bullet? Cloverleaf like a BARNES? Big mushroom? Little deformation & lots of shock?

At the short distance that you shot this one, I would have thought it would have dropped him.

 

[snox801]

I've been reluctant to switch to Berger for this reason. I shot a pig with my 338 lapua 300gr Berger and to my surprise it made it pretty far. Shot was only 20 yards. Pig made it a decent ways. Was the only one I shot with it so could be a fluke as animals can do amazing things some times

 

[RockyMtnMT]

No bullet is lightning. I would guess the pig traveled about 30-50 yards? You did not hit the spine or central nervous system, thus he did not drop in his tracks. Not sure what you expect?

Steve

 

[Double Naught Spy]

No bullet is lightning. I would guess the pig traveled about 30-50 yards? You did not hit the spine or central nervous system, thus he did not drop in his tracks. Not sure what you expect?

Steve

Well Steve, I agree with your assessment, but your query is misplaced. I have often stated that unless there is significant disruption of the CNS (direct or indirect as by hydrostatic shock), then there is no reason to expect a hog to go down immediately, and hydrostatic shock can be a very iffy and unpredictable benefit, if it occurs. So no, I don't expect that. However, Berger touted (see video I cited above) particular performance parameters and those are not exactly what I am seeing when I use Berger VLD-Hunting rounds. Instead of performing like this explosive round that comes apart at 3-5" inside of the animal resulting in a massive energy dump and hydrostatic shot, what I am seeing are rounds that perform much like typical hunting ammo.

I did some butchering on the hog today. The entry wound was nothing special and it wasn't expected to be. On the surface of the skin, the exit wound was not excited. Peeling the skin back and there was a nice, large wound hole. Cool.

Peeling the skin back revealed even more destruction.

Probing the mess with my fingers revealed that I could slip inside the chest and find the destroyed heart. Neat. The reason I could find the destroyed heart is that the VLD-Hunting round that is supposed to violently come apart at 3-5" with a massive energy dump and hydrostatic shock was apparently still together enough to take out 3 ribs in succession, notching the 4th by the big exit hole. By "take out" I mean that a section of each of the ribs was completely missing, apparently pulverized by the bullet that had not already become pulverized despite having traveling approximately 16" through soft body tissue.

In short, the Berger VLD-Hunting round appears to have largely performed just like any other typical hunting round which is NOT how it is supposed to perform.

 

[bigngreen]

I did not know the Berger 6.5 AR bullet was an orange box hunting bullet or a VLD design, I though they were a tactical line OTM hybrid design.

Quote on Hunting bullets. "These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ)." Now where does it say the bullet is supposed to come completely apart even on a thinner hunting bullet.

 

[scrmblr1982cj8]

DNS,

Thanks for the necropsy and the write-up!

I think I'll stick with the Barnes bullets. I've heard many stories about what the Berger bullets can do, but for my hunting conditions, the Barnes have proven effective.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I did not know the Berger 6.5 AR bullet was an orange box hunting bullet or a VLD design, I though they were a tactical line OTM hybrid design.

Quote on Hunting bullets. "These designs incorporate a sharp nose and slightly thinner jacket that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ)." Now where does it say the bullet is supposed to come completely apart even on a thinner hunting bullet.

LOL, I didn't know bullets were supposed to care if they were fired in an AR or not.

See, the name "VLD-Hunting" and Berger's advertisements for "VLD-Hunting" are what specify it as a hunting bullet. Nothing from Berger suggests or states that it isn't a bullet for the AR.

DNS,

Thanks for the necropsy and the write-up!

I think I'll stick with the Barnes bullets. I've heard many stories about what the Berger bullets can do, but for my hunting conditions, the Barnes have proven effective.

scrmblr, I think the Berger works like a regular hunting bullet just fine. Barnes are great bullets as well that seem to have fairly uniform performance, which is something I can see that folks have come to appreciate.

 

[bigngreen]

LOL, I didn't know bullets were supposed to care if they were fired in an AR or not.

See, the name "VLD-Hunting" and Berger's advertisements for "VLD-Hunting" are what specify it as a hunting bullet. Nothing from Berger suggests or states that it isn't a bullet for the AR.



scrmblr, I think the Berger works like a regular hunting bullet just fine. Barnes are great bullets as well that seem to have fairly uniform performance, which is something I can see that folks have come to appreciate.

Just wanted to clarify, I've seen the Berger AR bullet also referred to as the Berger Grendal so I was kind of confused by the title as to which bullet you were shooting.

 

[Coy Franks]

DNS, in my experience you are not going to achieve bullet retention unless you bring up your speed. I've been to this dance with a 308 and after trying everybody's bullet from 125's to 180's the only thing that I could get to work was with a Nosler 125 gr BT running 3000+fps. This was with a 24 in barrel so a shorter barrel is going to knock off plenty of speed. Everyone seems to get caught up in the bigger is better game of bullet weights including myself. I think if you will go to a lighter bullet and pick up the speed you will have more tissue damage and the bullet will not come out the other side. Anyway it worked for me.

 

[scrmblr1982cj8]

DNS,

I can find the Barnes bullets locally. I'd have to load the Berger bullets to evaluate their performance and I just don't have time for that right now.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Thanks Coy, I am okay with the bullet not being retained in regards to hunting. The notion of these traits are not what I am calling for, but what are advertised. Like I said, the round works, but more like a normal bullet. It may not be a good match for the Grendel in terms of doing what is claimed.

As for the higher velocity, the one hog I shot with a 90 gr. Speer TNT round going about 2750 fps from my Grendel was a broadside neck shot. It had one entry wound on one side and 6 or 7 tiny over penetrations on the opposite sides, most of which had bleed briefly like shaving nicks. That would pretty well match what you are suggesting.