I really appreciate the feedback Rich I don't want to have any issues on an animal I wouldn't even be messing with the light 175s but my rifle has a 1in 12 twist I Think I have a load with the 210 hunting vlds and they are what I wanted to use but I am pretty low in elevation and according to bergers twist calculator they only have marginable stability so I am going to work with these 175s a little more and see if I can use them along with a partition for closer in