You wont develop loads at 100 yards ever again

[diderr]

Two words; epicyclic swerve. I've experienced this to some degree in the past, but didn't know what it was. How about you guys? It looks like I'm going to be developing loads at 200 or farther from now on. gun)

 

[bill123]

I don't understand how this proves that load development at 100 yards is faulty. From the looks of the video, the bullet spirals around the POI in increasingly smaller spirals. To me this suggests that at 100 yards, you are getting the most error and the bullet just gets more accurate as it travels down range.

 

[gohring3006]

I have found not to trust my groups at 100 when it comes to long range I had 200smks in 30/06 group at 1 moa at 100 and was disappointed then at 400 they were less than .50moa. About 1.75in I concluded that they'll settle down at extended range so I never trust a load a 100yrds not anymore it sounds rediculous but I have seen it over and over so 100 is only reserved for rimfires at my house

 

[Mikecr]

That's the tip of a bullet, not bullet displacement.

 

[bill123]

That's the tip of a bullet, not bullet displacement.

My bad...but I still don't understand how that video show that a good charge at 100 can be a bad charge at longer range. I know that actual experience from many shooters shows that a good load at 100 won't always continue to be good down range. I just don't see how the video demonstrates that.

 

[g0rd0]

it really is all about bullet design
Bergers are designed for long distance and take a while to stableize. Then they keep stable for many many yards. That is why they are more expensive than most.
Around here 200 yard hunting shots are unheard of, most deer taken below 70 yards.
The best range we have (other than military and we do not have access to them) is 800 yards, a 3 hour drive and good luck booking it.
For me Speer and Hornady for targets and Etips for hunting

 

[CB11WYO]

...I concluded that they'll settle down at extended range so I never trust a load a 100yrds not anymore it sounds rediculous but I have seen it over and over so 100 is only reserved for rimfires at my house

Yup, yup and... yup

 

[MMERSS]

The video is a representation of pitch vs yaw "net" imbalance and has relatively minimal bearing on a shooters ability to better a group at say 500 yards as opposed to 100 yards.

One way to approach the concept is to visualize driving down a straight road at a certain speed. Your vehicle hits ice or water and starts to fishtail back and forth. Your vehicle continues to travel in a generally straight line but the front of your vehicle swerves from left to right. The "degree" or angle of the swerving from left to right caused by the fishtailing decreases the farther you travel. Eventually your car settles down and off you go again in your straight direction.

I have shot many groups long range that equate to better MOA dispersion than some groups shot at a much closer range. I haven't yet equated this to the bullet "falling asleep" but rather toward a combination of more stable conditions, more consistent velocity spreads, and better released shots.

One aspect with developing loads past 100 yards is confirmation of the effects of muzzle velocity variation when a chronograph is not available for record of the spreads. Many great groups can be shot at 100 with relatively high ES and SD. 100 yard MOA group potential will not hold to the same MOA potential with those high velocity variations at longer range. I develop at 100 and confirm at the longer ranges.

 

[justgoto]

Since YouTube is down presently, I can't tell what the video actually is, but suspect it is a video that Bryan Litz made to display "Epicyclic Swerve" and disprove it as the cause of smaller angular groups at longer ranges.
I'll cut to the chase and quote from the article.

The bottom line is that epicyclic swerve cannot cause smaller angular groups at longer ranges.

 

[Mikecr]

Yeah folks read way too much into their bullets 'go to sleep' notions.
You can make Bergers shoot excellent at 100yds, or you can make them shoot excellent at 500yds.
Either way, bullets shooting bad at 100yds cannot correct themselves into better farther out. They're not guided missiles.

As to why WE shoot better (in MOA) further out; this is still a mystery. Myself, I think it's precision in parallax adjustment.

 

[gohring3006]

Yeah folks read way too much into their bullets 'go to sleep' notions.
You can make Bergers shoot excellent at 100yds, or you can make them shoot excellent at 500yds.
Either way, bullets shooting bad at 100yds cannot correct themselves into better farther out. They're not guided missiles.

As to why WE shoot better (in MOA) further out; this is still a mystery. Myself, I think it's precisi on in parallax adjustment.

so your saying that I can't shoot a Berger at 1moa at 100 then it shoot .5moa at 400yrds I say your wrong the reason I say this is because I don't READ into anything I test and confirm if I have a rifle load combo that shoots 1 in at 100 but shoots less than 2in at 400 I didn't read that anywhere I saw it with my own eyes

 

[MMERSS]

As to why WE shoot better (in MOA) further out; this is still a mystery. Myself, I think it's precision in parallax adjustment.

Could be that too!

I've never experienced nor witnessed a claim of shooting better long range due to a bullet "going to sleep." It's been something else.

There is a check with the validity to the claim.

Load 30 rounds.

Set a target at 100 and another target at say 600.

Shoot one round at 100, one round 600, one round 100, one round 600, one round 100, one round 600. Check parallax between rounds. Measure the group.

Repeat the process four more times.

 

[gohring3006]

if paralax was the problem than I better rethink my 20 yrs of long range shooting experience and sniper training I don't think that if I can adjust paralax at 400 correctly that I can't adjust at 100. ******** is what I think bullets will shoot better look at some 50cal. Shooters they'll have 4in groups at 100 and 5in groups at 1000 maybe they are paralax dumb too...

 

[gohring3006]

Could be that too!

I've never experienced nor witnessed a claim of shooting better long range due to a bullet "going to sleep." It's been something else.

There is a check with the validity to the claim.

Load 30 rounds.

Set a target at 100 and another target at say 600.

Shoot one round at 100, one round 600, one round 100, one round 600, one round 100, one round 600. Check parallax between rounds. Measure the group.

Repeat the process four more QUITE]
the only true test would be to test this theory with a rifle in a repetitive mechanism that would return to battery exactly the same each time and I would bet that bullets are like arrows just out of the bow the arrow is oscillating but it will correct it self and go to sleep lol. At extended range bullets are no different it just happens at a faster rate you can't test this theory with human error involved it won't be accurate