Not professionally
been learning and testing. No expert by any stretch, but Ive found engineering resources that have helped with cf types, epoxy types and additives, etc.
Why use a carbon wrapped barel?
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been learning and testing. No expert by any stretch, but Ive found engineering resources that have helped with cf types, epoxy types and additives, etc.BR shooters will cut new crowns every 2-300 rounds, set back chambers a half inch 1-2 times on a 32" barrel if it's a shooter. Can you do any of these functions with the short shank/muzzle on a carbon barrel? No. This alone is enough reason to steer a BR or F shooter away from CF. Oh and weight? Aren't this rifles in that's 20-40# range? Why would they use the lightest composite for contour on an intended heavy gun? Let's be real. If they had an option of a 12# barrel that shoots in the 2s, and a 4# CF that shoots in the 2s, they're gonna choose the 12# Barrel every day.
Send it 284
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I've spoke with a few barrel manufacturers that are now building CF wrapped options, and they all agreed with this statement about thermal insulation with cf.Post a link courtesy of the army otherwise I highly doubt it. The thermal conductivity of carbon is significantly lower than steel. I've heard plenty of accounts of people burning out barrels quicker with CF wraps. I'm fairly certain the thin steel liner heats up way faster, the carbon does nothing, and they don't last as long as steel
Its a big enough deal that they put a ton of time into developing resins that can handle the extreme heat.
I think Bartlein will probably be the best cf option with the heavier steel core, but there really isn't much if any weight savings at that point.
I guess it all comes down to aesthetics
Bud LaRoche
Well-Known Member
Here are some weights posted by Bartlein about a year ago
Attachments
bdyal1972
Well-Known Member
Post a link courtesy of the army otherwise I highly doubt it. The thermal conductivity of carbon is significantly lower than steel. I've heard plenty of accounts of people burning out barrels quicker with CF wraps. I'm fairly certain the thin steel liner heats up way faster, the carbon does nothing, and they don't last as long as steel
Do you really think the army material command produced "white sheets" on top secret technology???
I think maybe I would suggest you contact proof or bartlein on their heat conductivity studies or go back to college or work on it in an industrial environment on equipment or study mercedes white papers on their cf technology....
I would also suggest you study MORE THAN THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY as you can't currently see the forest for the trees.... your looking at it BACKWARDS AS YOU ARE A PESSEMIST....
Do you really think that the usa-britain-china and Russia ALL INVESTESTED BILLIONS into cf wrapped barrels because it was a failed technology that looked cool????
Maybe just maybe YOU OVERESTIMATE YOUR OWN LOGIC AND CAPABILITIES????
MIGHT NOT BE YOUR BAILEYWICK???
CF HAS BEEN BEING USED FOR 2 DECADES IN INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS TO REMOVE HEAT FROM FORMING PROCESSES WHILE RETAINING STRENGTH-LOWERING HARMONICS-DETERRING DEFLECTION ALL THE WHILE LOWERING MASS......
EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES WITH BARRELS....
Gentlemen. One of the BIG reasons competitors don't use CF barrels is the cost. There are four consumables in a weapon system. bullet, powder, primer and barrel. A lot of competitors replace their barrel once it opens up outside their expectations in accuracy. Replacement barrel from Krieger average about $350.00 per contoured blank. Through Bughole.com. I have found Bartlein CF barrels for $715.00. That is a huge price savings if you are replacing your barrel regularly.
rustyshackleford
Well-Known Member
I'm a mechanical engineer and I build rockets for a living my guy. Never seen a low thermal conductivity heat sink but go on ahead and act like citing a "classified" study is a legitimate reference. I think the claim with CF barrels cooling more efficiently or more quickly can both be true and misleading. The greater the temperature difference from atmospheric conditions the more "efficiently" something will cool down and the more "quickly" it will cool down. I'm sure you were thinking about Newton's law of cooling when you typed all this up.
25WSM
Well-Known Member
As I've wrote before the weight difference between a sendero carbon and a number 4 steel with spiral flutes is almost identical. This is in 26 inch length. I only put carbon on my hunting rifle because carbon fiber is beautiful to look at. I really don't care if it cools down faster or is stiffer or not. It looks cool to me. Mine is on a 6.5saum and it shoots in the 1s. It has shot several 300 yard 1/2 inch groups and it's not even broke in to the speed up point yet. So accuracy isn't an issue. I built 2 other carbon barrels on creeds a few months ago and both were sub 1/2 moa with factory ammo. But most creeds I've built do shoot under 1/2 moa with factory ammo. Last yr I built more creeds than any other cartridge. 280ai is finally in second place. I really like the carbon barrels and will use more of them without hesitation. And like has been mentioned 350 for a blank and 175 for fluting and you not far from a carbon barrel in cost. Is it worth the extra money is up to you. I've never used one on any of my 1000 yard BR guns but I'm thinking about trying one this yr. And yes weight is a factor in fclass and br. I'm limited to 17 pounds and that weight adds up fast. I should be able to do a 1.250 straight and finish at 32 inches and be the same weight or less than my 29 in heavy varmint contour. We will see how it shoots with the long strings we do. It's pretty hard on barrels. Should be a good test on how they hold up to heat.
Shep
Shep
B-b-b-b-because all the cool kids are doing it
...and you don't need a man-bun!~
Sweet! I'd love to pick your brain. Is thermal conductivity based on meterial thickness, weight or what? Having a hard time getting that part answered. In other words, if I have an inch of steel or an inch of steel, the TC is as listed? Also, we are assuming standard epoxy resin, not silver or graphite additives.
bdyal1972
Well-Known Member
A 2.5 lb cf WRAPPED barrel will never be stiffer than a 2.5lb steel barrel...
But
A 3.5 LB CF WRAPPED BARREL CAN BE AS STIFF AS A 3LB STEEL BARREL AND PROVIDE THE HARMONICS OF A 5LB STEEL BARREL!!!
THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE
I REGULARLY SEE SUB HALF MOA CF WRAPPED BARREL GUNS SHOOTING 2 or 3 MORE 1/2MOA GROUPS AN HOUR AT A 1000 YARDS THAN ALL STEEL RIFLES WEIGHING 3 -5 POUNDS MORE... ALSO RIFLES WITH CF WRAPPED BARRELS RETAIN SUB MOA EFFECT AT 1000 YARDS APPROCIMATELY 500-1000 MORE ROUNDS....
THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING IN THIS SMALL GROUP OF HIGH VOLUME SHOOTERS.....
SOME OF THE CF BARRELS ARE MAINTAINING SUB 3/4 MOA AFTER BEING SET BACK 6-7 TIMES....
THE REAL PROBLEM IS AND ALEAYS WILL BE CHAMBER THROAT WEAR AND HARDER MORE HEAT RESISTANT STEELS IN CONJUNCTION WITH GAIN TWIST TECHNOLOGY SEEMS TO BE THE ANSWER....
I SEE THE FUTURE AS 3/4" DIAMETER SHANKS 5" LONG WITH 22" OF 3R OR 5R CF WRAPPED AND 2"OR 3" OF 1" DIAMETER STEEL AT THE END AND A GAIN TWIST OF 1-8" FOR L9NG 230-245 GRAIN 30CAL OR 195 GRAIN 7MM...
BUT I AM A DREAMER AND GAIN TWIST IS NOT PERFECTED YET...
BTW THE FUTURE WILL ALSO SEE BIPODS WITHIN 3" OF THE MUZZLE!!!
IT WORKS!!!
I decided, after last elk season in Colorado, that I was going to go lighter in 2021. I've been hunting with a .338RUM, on its 2nd barrel, for many years and its NOT light. The Savage Ultralite caught my eye and the specs are pretty impressive to me: 6 lbs, blueprinted action, adjustable fit stock, accutrigger and PROOF barrel for $1200. I'll keep an open mind on the CF barrel and give it a try. I shoot a lot and know how fast barrels heat up and change POI. The 338RUM heats up in 5 shots minutes apart and my 28 Nosler heats up in 3 shots minutes apart. I'll see if the CF is all that they say regarding heat dissipation and accuracy.
Here's what the Seals say..."ounces equals pounds, pounds equal pain". I am not a gunsmith, but I would just pose this question...Which weighs LESS, A 1" diameter, 24" carbon fiber barrel, or a "1 diameter stainless steel non fluted 24" barrel" if you want to compare weight with all things being equal now. Apples to apples. I can't tell you enough how much i loved carrying my CA Ridgline 24 " 6.5 prc with a 21 ounce Leupy/Talley ring/base that only weights 8.0 lbs out West last fall. I love the look of a fluted barrel more but sadly, when you get "well into your sixties" ounces do equal pain on western hunts.
bdyal1972
Well-Known Member
I believe looking at a rotor on a helicopter and remembering the steel barrel surface area is just diameter and length...
Carbon fiber conducts heat THE LENGTH OF THE WRAP IN ADDITION TO THE DIAMETER AND LENGTH....
THINK ABOUT IT...
LOOK AT A HELICOPTER ROTOR... MAYBE THAT WILL HELP...
MY WIND TURBINE POWERSHAFTS STARTED OUT AS 750LBS OF STEEL
THEN
400LBS OF CF
THEN
120LBS OF CF-HEAT RETAINED LOWERED LIFE SPAN TO SUB 200000 HOURS......
A CHANGE IN WEAVE PATTERN-RESIN COMPOSITION AND 150LB SHAFT EXCEEDED TEST DOCUMENATION TIME APPROCIMATELY 100 YEARS....
GOT TO THINK 3 DIMENSIONALLY!!!
TAKE ALL THE TP OFF THE TP TUBE!!!!
THINK THINK THINK
