which is easier to calculate: MOA or MILS?

[rocknwell]

Hey all, as the thread title reads, what is easiest to calculate when making longer distance shots: MOA or MILS? For example: I range a target at 623 yards. Does it take more mental calculating/converting using MIL turrets than it would using MOA turrets? Is it better to use yards with MOA and meters with MILS? I'm asking this because i'm no where near being a gee-whiz at math. I can do simple calculations, and doing it in 10s is much easier to do in the brain. however, standard measurements make sense to me. I can think yards. I can't think meters. So what are your thoughts? I must say though I don't want a MIL reticle scope with MOA turrets. that's just mind boggling to me. the mil dots would just get annoying in that case and I wouldn't use them.

 

[Broz]

Can you relate to there being 4 quarters in 1 dollar? or 4 .25's in 1

Can you remember this.

1 moa is 1" at 100 yds
1moa is 2" at 200
1moa is 3" at 300
1 moa is 4" at 400
1 moa is 5" at 500 and so on?

So 1 moa at 350 yards is 3.5" or 3 1/2" and also at 375 yds it would be 3.75" or 3 3/4"

This is all easy for me and why I choose MOA

Jeff

 

[SBruce]

+1

What he said!!

 

[Broz]

+1

What he said!!

OMG!! Someone agreed with me... SB be careful you are treading on thin ice here...

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Scot E]

It is much easier to not get caught up in the math of either one. The best way is to get a ballistic app, or print a drop chart, that will figure all of that for you then just dial your turrets accordingly.

The math part of MOA or MILS is often talked about but really shouldn't be. Both are angular measurements, not linear, so to try to add linear math like inches, mm, yards, and meters, is getting off path IMO.

This thread may be helpful.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/taking-advantage-angular-measurements-scope-use-100870/

Scot E.

 

[Broz]

The math part of MOA or MILS is often talked about but really shouldn't be. Both are angular measurements, not linear, so to try to add linear math like inches, mm, yards, and meters, is getting off path IMO.
Scot E.

Easy Peasy!!!

See told ya!!

 

[JackinSD]

Can you relate to there being 4 quarters in 1 dollar? or 4 .25's in 1

Can you remember this.

1 moa is 1" at 100 yds
1moa is 2" at 200
1moa is 3" at 300
1 moa is 4" at 400
1 moa is 5" at 500 and so on?

So 1 moa at 350 yards is 3.5" or 3 1/2" and also at 375 yds it would be 3.75" or 3 3/4"

This is all easy for me and why I choose MOA

Jeff

another +1

 

[Scot E]

Easy Peasy!!!

See told ya!!

I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said it was unnecessary. Why get into the math when you don't have to? Using angular measurements takes all the math out of it and ends up being faster and more accurate.

I am interested now though Jeff. I have read a lot of your posts and am a bit surprised you ever use the kind of math you just listed above.

I know you use a rangefinder, so no math needed there
I know you use a ballistic app and have range cards as backups, so no math.
I know you have a graduated reticle so I am assuming you would call misses with it instead of taking the time to 1. figure how far your shot was, 2. then guessing how many inches you were off target then 3. calculating how many MOA that is so you can redial.

In what application do you use this math so often that it is so important?

Scot E.

 

[Broz]

In what application do you use this math so often that it is so important?

Scot E.

I am reluctant to answer this as I feel you are just looking to argue one of your points again. But here are the facts that I will post in hopes the OP will get something from it for his benefit.

Lets start with set up. After load work up and chronograph testing I enter the average velocity into the ballistics program along with the advertised BC.
I then go to my private range where I have a flat section of ground and a mile long fence with a road along side it. On this fence are flags every hundred yards. I shoot groups from these locations and record the results to center group from several locations. Example, lets say the group at 600 yards is 6" low. I know that 6" low @ 600 yds, for all practical purposes within most all of our shooting cabilities is 1 moa low. So I need to add 1 moa to the dial up I used. I do this at many distances and will adjust BC or velocity until my rifle is as close as I can get it at all distances to the shooting solution my program provides.

Next I go to field practice. At this point I look through my Second Focal Plane scope and use my MOA reticle to measure the rock I am about to engage. I like rocks in the 1 to 1 1/2 moa size. So lets say at 1200 yards I know that 1 moa rock is 12" wide and 12" tall. I dial both windage and elevation in MOA for a dead center hit. If I hit right at the bottom of the rock I know at 1200 yards I need to come up 6" of the 12" rock to be dead center. At 1200 yards 1/2 or .5 moa is roughly 6". I then make the correction and fire again.

I like to practice a lot for a follow up shot. If I take the same shot at 1200 yards on a 1 moa rock and see the hit go left. I move my center reticle to the point of bullet impact and then look to see how many MOA to the center of target where my point of aim was. Lets say 2 moa on the reticle. I can then quickly hold over using the reticle and send a second shot. Or I can adjust the windage turret Left or Right 2 moa for a follow up.

I also use my SFP / MOA reticle to size up game. If I am sizing up a deer at 700 yards and with him looking my direction it is 3 moa across the spread of his antlers, I know he is 3 moa wide at 700 yards or 3 x 7" which equals 21" wide.

I did this on the Bull I took this year. I first seen him at 1200 yards and measured his spread at close to 4 MOA. Once I killed him I found I was off a little. 4 MOA at 1200 yards is 48". With the tape on him he was only 47 5/8" wide inside.

Also while spotting for someone while I am training or just out shooting I will use my reticle to give them a correction. Looking through my SFP NXS with a NP-R1 reticle in MOA I will place the center cross hairs on their point of impact. I will then call out what my reticle tells me they need to be center mass to the point of aim. Example: Come up 1 moa and left 1 1/2 moa. Also if I or someone shoots a group at , lets say 1200 yards on a rock. After their 3 shots using a very precise point of aim like a white calcium spot on a face of a rock. I will measure the group with my MOA reticle. If it measures .5 or 1/2 MOA I know that 1/2 MOA at 1200 is again 6" and a good group. I will also measure with my MOA reticle from center of group to point of aim. If the center of group was again 1/2 MOA or 6" from point of aim it will be inside the 12" kill zone of an elk I use.

I hope this method I use and teach is of help to some of the new shooters here. It works very well for us.

Jeff

 

[rocknwell]

Wow, thank you Jeff! I can relate to that. sounds like I shall stick with the MOA turrets/reticles. Thanks for taking the time to explain it! Now I just need January to come around so I can go home and go shopping!

 

[Broz]

Wow, thank you Jeff! I can relate to that. sounds like I shall stick with the MOA turrets/reticles. Thanks for taking the time to explain it! Now I just need January to come around so I can go home and go shopping!

You are more than welcome Sir. Glad it was of help.

Jeff

 

[Scot E]

I am reluctant to answer this as I feel you are just looking to argue one of your points again. But here are the facts that I will post in hopes the OP will get something from it for his benefit.

Lets start with set up. After load work up and chronograph testing I enter the average velocity into the ballistics program along with the advertised BC.
I then go to my private range where I have a flat section of ground and a mile long fence with a road along side it. On this fence are flags every hundred yards. I shoot groups from these locations and record the results to center group from several locations. Example, lets say the group at 600 yards is 6" low. I know that 6" low @ 600 yds, for all practical purposes within most all of our shooting cabilities is 1 moa low. So I need to add 1 moa to the dial up I used. I do this at many distances and will adjust BC or velocity until my rifle is as close as I can get it at all distances to the shooting solution my program provides.

Next I go to field practice. At this point I look through my Second Focal Plane scope and use my MOA reticle to measure the rock I am about to engage. I like rocks in the 1 to 1 1/2 moa size. So lets say at 1200 yards I know that 1 moa rock is 12" wide and 12" tall. I dial both windage and elevation in MOA for a dead center hit. If I hit right at the bottom of the rock I know at 1200 yards I need to come up 6" of the 12" rock to be dead center. At 1200 yards 1/2 or .5 moa is roughly 6". I then make the correction and fire again.

I like to practice a lot for a follow up shot. If I take the same shot at 1200 yards on a 1 moa rock and see the hit go left. I move my center reticle to the point of bullet impact and then look to see how many MOA to the center of target where my point of aim was. Lets say 2 moa on the reticle. I can then quickly hold over using the reticle and send a second shot. Or I can adjust the windage turret Left or Right 2 moa for a follow up.

I also use my SFP / MOA reticle to size up game. If I am sizing up a deer at 700 yards and with him looking my direction it is 3 moa across the spread of his antlers, I know he is 3 moa wide at 700 yards or 3 x 7" which equals 21" wide.

I did this on the Bull I took this year. I first seen him at 1200 yards and measured his spread at close to 4 MOA. Once I killed him I found I was off a little. 4 MOA at 1200 yards is 48". With the tape on him he was only 47 5/8" wide inside.

Also while spotting for someone while I am training or just out shooting I will use my reticle to give them a correction. Looking through my SFP NXS with a NP-R1 reticle in MOA I will place the center cross hairs on their point of impact. I will then call out what my reticle tells me they need to be center mass to the point of aim. Example: Come up 1 moa and left 1 1/2 moa. Also if I or someone shoots a group at , lets say 1200 yards on a rock. After their 3 shots using a very precise point of aim like a white calcium spot on a face of a rock. I will measure the group with my MOA reticle. If it measures .5 or 1/2 MOA I know that 1/2 MOA at 1200 is again 6" and a good group. I will also measure with my MOA reticle from center of group to point of aim. If the center of group was again 1/2 MOA or 6" from point of aim it will be inside the 12" kill zone of an elk I use.

I hope this method I use and teach is of help to some of the new shooters here. It works very well for us.

Jeff

Good info Jeff, Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like you use the angular concept I was talking about through your whole process. That was my only point.


Scot E.

 

[rocknwell]

I now see how important, indeed rather simple, it is to have a scope with an MOA or MIL reticle. I can't wait to replace my cheapy no-name brand that came with my remington. I know I was making turret adjustments after each shot trying to sight it in. I was doing it all wrong. This finally makes sense to me. What a relief!

 

[Broz]

Rocknwell, please not the references I gave in my posts were using a .25 MOA scope turret. They are what I prefer over 1/8th moa or 1/2 moa turrets. In other words I use a 1/4 MOA turret. 4 clicks per inch at 100 yards.

Jeff