which barrel contour?

[Bigeclipse]

I had another thread on some barrel questions I had but I want this one to specifically be about contour. Details...this will be a rifle for my wife. We would like to keep complete weight of rifle/scope to 9lbs max. Currently with a savage sporter barrel and boyds laminate stock the rifle will be at 8lbs 8ounces. The Savage sporter barrels are pretty thin and end about .565 thick which seems similar to #2 contour pac nor barrels. Some have suggested #5 contour which seems too thick and heavy for my wife. This will be a mountain type rifle that she will carry for stalking, shoot from a stand and box blinds. Some shots will be off hand. Her average shots will be under 100 yards but she has shot out to 300 out of the box blind with her current rifle and I guess we do have one 400 yard field so let's call that max. Whatever barrel I get her I would like to be able to hold a 3 shot group under 1MOA with handloads.

So the question...how thin is too thin? I know thicker is better but considering we want to try and keep the rifle relatively light...what contour do you all suggest and why. This is strictly a hunting rifle in 7mm08 caliber for deer.

 

[Marble]

You should be able to get what you want out of the Savage bone stock. I've reloaded for 3 different 7-08 rifles and all have gotten better than MOA.

 

[pburton]

I am thinking that since this is a pack around rifle and used out of a blind that you will not be going to with a long barrel. Something around 22"? If that is the case I would probably go with a #3 contour.

 

[Buttermilk]

Bartlein #3B or #3 contour if weight is a concern.

 

[Bigeclipse]

You should be able to get what you want out of the Savage bone stock. I've reloaded for 3 different 7-08 rifles and all have gotten better than MOA.

The current rifle is a 270 so we will be rebarreling it into a 7mm-08 or possibly 260. Even though I reload I'm still leaning towards 7mm08 for ease of factory ammo if needed and reloading components will also be easier to obtain.

 

[Garycrow]

It's real easy to get too heavy with a hunting rifle when you start modifying it. My recommendation would be to first ditch the laminated stock and put something lighter on it. I would also never go heavier than a #3 contour on a hunting rifle unless it was a dedicated long range rig, which 400 yds. isn't. 22" is the longest I would go for a 7mm-08 also, the velocity gain from a longer barrel isn't noticable.

FWIW Bartlein has a funky contour numbering system. A #3 bartlein is about the same as everybody else's #4, and their #3B is about the same as everyone else's #5 which is a heavy chunk of steel.

 

[Bigeclipse]

It's real easy to get too heavy with a hunting rifle when you start modifying it. My recommendation would be to first ditch the laminated stock and put something lighter on it. I would also never go heavier than a #3 contour on a hunting rifle unless it was a dedicated long range rig, which 400 yds. isn't. 22" is the longest I would go for a 7mm-08 also, the velocity gain from a longer barrel isn't noticable.

FWIW Bartlein has a funky contour numbering system. A #3 bartlein is about the same as everybody else's #4, and their #3B is about the same as everyone else's #5 which is a heavy chunk of steel.

The reason for the laminated stock is cost. Unfortunately I cannot afford a super high-end manners or mcmillan and those are the only manufacturers who offer stocks for the savage 110 center-feed blind mag configuration other than the boyds laminates or stockade stocks (which approach the cost of manners) The boyds laminate we were looking at has a weight of 2lbs 8-12ounces which is 4-8ounces or a half pound heavier than your typical synthetic stock. The boyds stock, which will be custom fitted to her and have a nice recoil pad will cost $150...a similar manners/McMillan will be ~$500. The current all up weight of the savage with it's cheap Tupperware stock is 8lbs 1ounce. I weighed the Tupperware stock and it weighs 2lbs 2 ounces so if we add 10 ounces (which will likely be closer to only 6ounces heavier) for the laminate we will be at 8lbs 11 ounces which is still under her 9lb requirement, assuming we stick with a similar weighted barrel. Then after a year or two of saving I could potentially put an expensive McMillan on it to further lighten the rifle if she wants even lighter.

Basically what I wanted to know is at what point does a barrel become TOO thin for the type of hunting she will do. Shorter range (max 300-400 yards but I doubt she will ever shoot that far) and she will likely only need 1-2 shots but in an off chance call it 3 shots which was my weird reasoning for saying trying to keep 3 shot groups under 1 MOA ha ha. Maybe I am looking at this all wrong.

 

[novaman64]

Since different manufacturers have different contours I would aim to be around .670 at the muzzle and go for a 22-24" barrel. For stocks, have you looked at the Bell & Carlson? They make a decent stock that is well priced and fairly light.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Since different manufacturers have different contours I would aim to be around .670 at the muzzle and go for a 22-24" barrel. For stocks, have you looked at the Bell & Carlson? They make a decent stock that is well priced and fairly light.

yes but they only make them for the 110 long action that is a staggerfeed. The savage we have is a 110 long action "centerfeed"

 

[can1010]

mcgowen barrel ultra lite contour. 2.5 lbs and have good with their barrels

 

[ohiohunter]

Since this is a budget minded build I would look for a factory new take off, slightly used, or an ER shaw barrel... at best a Criterion. Keep the factory stock before jumping into a heavier new stock. See how it shoots. Some will shoot fine, others not so much, I've had luck w/ a bone factory savage youth 7mm-08 that will shoot sub moa. Which is plenty good for the distances noted. I think it weighs in at 7lbs +/-0.5#.

Heck depending on your wifes LOP a new youth 7mm-08 may not be a bad idea. Plus its on a short action. By the time you rebarrel and put a new stock on it you could have a new gun w/ a decent enough nikon scope for about the same price. Also finding an after market stock down the road is more likely to happen with the SA. Then put something else on the LA.

If you're open to caliber choices depending on what barrels (or actions) become available I'd consider 308 and 6.5creedmoor too.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Since this is a budget minded build I would look for a factory new take off, slightly used, or an ER shaw barrel... at best a Criterion. Keep the factory stock before jumping into a heavier new stock. See how it shoots. Some will shoot fine, others not so much, I've had luck w/ a bone factory savage youth 7mm-08 that will shoot sub moa. Which is plenty good for the distances noted. I think it weighs in at 7lbs +/-0.5#.

Heck depending on your wifes LOP a new youth 7mm-08 may not be a bad idea. Plus its on a short action. By the time you rebarrel and put a new stock on it you could have a new gun w/ a decent enough nikon scope for about the same price. Also finding an after market stock down the road is more likely to happen with the SA. Then put something else on the LA.

If you're open to caliber choices depending on what barrels (or actions) become available I'd consider 308 and 6.5creedmoor too.

Thanks for the advice but we already have the action for the build. The other reason she chose a boyds stock is the "pretty colors" lol or so she said.
I explained to her these laminates add .6ounces more than the factory synthetic and she stated she was ok with that just as long as the overall weight does not go heavier than her current rifle which is 9lbs 1 ounce with scope. We have some room to play with as far as weight and I have decided to go with an ER shaw barrel blank through apache gun works. They only charge 200 bucks and apparently they have good success in making these blanks shoot very well. Always below 1MOA and most often closer to .5MOA, especially with worked up loads. the reason for the long action is I got it crazy cheap at a gun show (275$), it has a very crisp accutrigger with 3lb pull (tested with my pull gague) and it is in excellent condition. Yes the short action would have saved some weight, but not too much.
We will have the boyds stock cut to her length of pull (13 1/4inch) so it should fit well. I have calculated that if the ER SHAW barrel comes in close to the weight of the factory barrel (which it should since it is the same contour) then we will be at 8lbs 10ounces finished with scope. This is still lighter than what she has been using for years which is great and will give her the "looks" of a rifle she desires haha. Win Win.

As for 6.5creedmore, id prefer the 260rem over that, and we are likely going 7mm-08. The reason for 7mm-08 over 308...the 7mm-08 comes in at about the highest recoil level for her to shoot for a shooting session. She can tolerate my 3006 (which weighs about what hers should just about finish at) but after about 5 shots, she starts to develop a slight flinch which we always stop once she starts flinching. I figure the 308 will be comparable to the 3006 but the 7mm-08 with 120gr bullets should be about a perfect balance between recoil and still taking deer at 400 yards (most likely all shots under 300 yards). Then if she gets used to recoil we can bump it up to 140s and heavier loadings if she desires. Even the 140s at reasonable speeds have a 20-30% recoil reduction compared to 308 150s at reasonable speeds. The recoil calculators suggest about 10ft/lbs 7mm-08 with 140s vs 12.-13.5ft/lbs on 150s for the 308 (these were calculated with a 9lb rifle for both instances). Again maybe I am looking at all this wrong but I did try to convince her about the stock options and she is insistent on the "pretty" stocks lol.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I was also considering have it be a 20inch barrel...which yes I know longer barrel are usually desired but 20inches seems to be ok for 308s so im thinking since her ABSOLUTE max with this rifle will be 400 yards, a 20inch barrel with the right bullet and powder should be all that is needed. This will cut even more weight off the end of the rifle and make the overall length shorter helping the fact it is a long action rifle.

 

[ATH]

I replied to your other thread regarding Boyds color. Hope that helped.

If you have not handled the Boyds stock yet, let me tell you I am very happy with the feel of my Prairie Hunter for a light carry rifle. Lightest option out there? No. But it's not heavy. And most of the ultra light weight stocks do not inlet for Savage. I know, I've looked.

Regarding the barrel contour, in a hunting rifle that is not a real long range rig the question is almost meaningless. I have a factory Savage .243 sporter barrel, it is whip thin and shot around 1 MOA with handloads. For moderate ranges....beyond what you describe....that is fine. Now put a custom barrel on instead, and you're golden.

I'm putting together a 243AI on a Savage action, Shilen barrel. In prefits they only offer standard Savage contours - Sporter, Heavy Sporter, Varmint. After a lot of thought, I went with Heavy Sporter (S4). I'll be doing some prairie dog hunting with it this fall but rotating it with another rifle. For antelope/deer hunting, I don't need to fire long strings. So a heavy sporter seems acceptable. I'm not shooting matches throwing 10 or more rounds downrange without cooling.

The 243AI will sit in a McMillan A3 Sporter I have on order for it ($$). But this is kind of a once-in-a-lifetime build for me. After receiving my Boyds I can say I don't think you will be disappointed in the feel. But hopefully you know how to install pillars and bed a rifle. Hint -- buy the "factory savage" pillars from Stocky's. You need very thin pillars, and the Stocky's are pre-cut to clear the sear. I was ignorant and though the adjustable Brownells would be easier to deal with...there is not enough room in a Savage for such wide pillars to work easily, requiring extensive modification via dremel, and the front pillar area was too short to even make use of the adjustment range and I just used the barrel end of the pillar.