When to anneal brass.

[Dennis Sawyer]

I'd like some input from guys that anneal. In my mind the best way would be to deprime the brass then thoroughly clean and tumble it, then anneal and finally run it through the die.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks, Dennis

 

[rcoody]

I usually decap, anneal, clean with ultrasonic, size, tumble to remove lube, clean flash holes, check trim length/trim, chamfer, prime, charge and seat bullets

 

[Dennis Sawyer]

Thanks for the response. I guess my biggest concern was whether to anneal before or after I size. Sounds like we're on the same page. Approximately how many more firings can one expect when annealing?

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the response. I guess my biggest concern was whether to anneal before or after I size. Sounds like we're on the same page. Approximately how many more firings can one expect when annealing?

Definitely before you resize. Depending on how soft your brass is it should be done usually every 2-3 firings The more frequently you anneal the more consistent your neck pressure will be.

Annealing softens the brass for easier working and each time subsequently you shoot it the brass gets a little harder.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Annealing should be done when seating pressure increases, this is the brass fighting the change to the larger diameter. Annealing REDUCES neck pressure, it does NOT INCREASE it.
The reason to anneal is to give CONSISTENT neck tension, the frequency of this is dependent on the brass alloy itself and how much movement of the brass is taking place when sizing, this where work hardening occurs, when the brass is squeezed back to be close to SAAMI specs.
Even if you use a bushing neck die, if your chamber neck is .008" over loaded neck diameter, then .010" of 'working' is occurring everytime you size the neck.

I have a rule of thumb, hunting rifles should have 3-5 firings before annealing, varmint/target rifles 3 firings and comp rifles every firing.
All annealing should be done before sizing, I don't care if the spent primers are removed first or not. I used to tumble first, but, moved away from that, as my brass rarely gets dirty enough to obscure the results.

Hope this helps you understand WHEN to anneal.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[rcoody]

Annealing should be done when seating pressure increases, this is the brass fighting the change to the larger diameter. Annealing REDUCES neck pressure, it does NOT INCREASE it.
The reason to anneal is to give CONSISTENT neck tension, the frequency of this is dependent on the brass alloy itself and how much movement of the brass is taking place when sizing, this where work hardening occurs, when the brass is squeezed back to be close to SAAMI specs.
Even if you use a bushing neck die, if your chamber neck is .008" over loaded neck diameter, then .010" of 'working' is occurring everytime you size the neck.

I have a rule of thumb, hunting rifles should have 3-5 firings before annealing, varmint/target rifles 3 firings and comp rifles every firing.
All annealing should be done before sizing, I don't care if the spent primers are removed first or not. I used to tumble first, but, moved away from that, as my brass rarely gets dirty enough to obscure the results.

Hope this helps you understand WHEN to anneal.

Cheers.
gun)

Yep hunting/general use 3 to five firings

Long.range.precision every firing.

If it is not done right it is worse than not doing it.at all

 

[Dosh]

DS, I've been annealing new brass before using and after 3 firings. Decap, anneal, size, trim and into the stainless pin tumbler.

 

[Dennis Sawyer]

Thanks for all the input guys. I've had a bench source annealing machine sitting on the shelf for a while now. I think I'll put it to use. Thanks again, Dennis

 

[Okanogan]

After reading Brian Litz's Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol 2, I reduced my annealing efforts to try to focus mainly on brass longevity. The results published in his new book did not support my prior belief that annealing helped reduce SD/ES. The new book has some interesting and surprising information and I would recommend it as reading for those interested in reloading for long range applications.

 

[Sully2]

I have a rule of thumb, hunting rifles should have 3-5 firings before annealing, varmint/target rifles 3 firings and comp rifles every firing.
All annealing should be done before sizing, I don't care if the spent primers are removed first or not. I used to tumble first, but, moved away from that, as my brass rarely gets dirty enough to obscure the results.

Hope this helps you understand WHEN to anneal.
Cheers.
gun)

MAG:I do the similiar with my brass....3 to 5 loadings and FOR ME thats "close enough". Any distance shooting I do, doesnt need to be annealed every cycle as I cant shoot all that far and the difference between 2 in groups at distance and 3 1/2 inch groups doesnt mean diddly to me personally.

 

[jsthntn247]

I've got a 21st century seating force press. Once fired 308 brass (FGMM 168) loaded at 65-90lbs un-annealed and ES was around 35 fps. I annealed some more of it and they seated from 60-65lbs with an ES of 13. I've duplicated this on several occasions in different calibers. I anneal every firing usually, just got lazy this time but just re-iterated previous findings.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I've got a 21st century seating force press. Once fired 308 brass (FGMM 168) loaded at 65-90lbs un-annealed and ES was around 35 fps. I annealed some more of it and they seated from 60-65lbs with an ES of 13. I've duplicated this on several occasions in different calibers. I anneal every firing usually, just got lazy this time but just re-iterated previous findings.

It's true that annealing reduces neck tension, this in turn changes start pressure, it is this that causes the better ES and SD numbers, not the actual seating force, as bullet release isn't by friction, it is by neck expansion. The neck expands readily early in the burn. I run no more than .0015" in my comp guns, and .001" is normal for my guns. I find the low seating pressure to enhance start pressure and the annealing every firing makes everything consistent.
I ran some tests over my pressure trace with bullets that could easily be moved by hand, careful chambering proved that the neck tension wasn't that important when the bullets were resting on the lands, start pressure was uniform, when the bullets were at different OAL the start pressure was errattic, this all proves that the actual neck tension isn't the deciding factor, it's the start pressure of the loads.

Cheers.
gun)