What is long range?

[AJ Peacock]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, however, a discussion I had a couple days ago got me thinking.
<divergence>
I was in Boston and asked someone how far something was from Boston. They answered about an hour, I realized that they answered a distance question with a time.
<back to the post>

Maybe LONG RANGE should be defined as how LONG it takes a bullet to go down RANGE to its target?

I've thought about this, and it seems that for the firearms I shoot, LONG RANGE is any target that is a second or more downrange. This seems reasonable, as the load I shoot in my 7mm Rem Mag can go around 750yds in a second (seems like Long Range). The load I shoot in my 338AM can go a bit over 900yds in the first second. And a little 22LR goes 200-250yds in the first second (250yds seems like Long Range for a 22LR).

What do you all think? Maybe 3/4 of a second is Long Range?

AJ

 

[CatShooter]

That's sort of a back door to it, but it's OK with me.

I've always defined "long range" as the point that you have to do more than "hold over", or "hold off".

When you have to get out the Kestral, the lasers or Wild, and look up data... is long range to me... even with the .22lr.

But when I read what you said, the 3/4 of a second seems to fit.

The drop of a bullet, no matter what caliber (.22lr to 50BMG) in 3/4 of a second, is just about the same, so the tools and skills to hit with it, would be about the same.


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[bwaites]

Removed, not pertinent to this thread.

 

[CatShooter]

The drop of a bullet, no matter what caliber (.22lr to 50BMG) in 3/4 of a second, is just about the same.

Nope, not "just about", it is the same, unless we have have revoked gravity!!

Bill

Nope, it's "just about" the same, NOT exactly the same...

... I haven't revoked the laws of gravity, but the laws of aerodynamics's DO come into play.

Some bullet forms (long pointy ones) have a slight lift, compared to the blunter ones like the .22lr, and the 45-70.


So it is "just about" the same...


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[bwaites]

Removed, not thread pertinent.

 

[Buffalobob]

AOD is important

 

[CatShooter]

HMMM....My physics is a few years old, but if I recall correctly on rotating bodies, (as opposed to spinning, which is over or underspin) the lift is so negligible as to be a non-factor. On underspinning bodies, lift can be significant, though.

Lift occurs when the air pressure above a body is lower than air pressure below the body. That is usually caused by having the top of the body present a longer surface to the air, thus requiring that attached air to go further over the body to create lift. The wing is therefor assymetrical in side view. A golf ball creates the lift by trapping the air with the dimples and forcing the air over the ball, also lengthening the path the air must travel, creating a low pressure void on top of the ball.

Bullets, however, rotate, and therefore cannot be asymmetrical or create lower pressure on top than below. So I can't figure out how they create lift.

Nevertheless, the difference is so miniscule as to be not worth arguing over!

Bill

Not so... you are talking about wings - this is bullets.

Apples and oranges.

If you take a flat stick like a ruler, and stick it out a window of a moving car, you will quickly discover lift without airfoil.

I won't go further with this, because you don't have the physics to continue.


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[bwaites]

Removed to avoid thread clutter.

 

[silvertip-co]

AJP I think you are homing in on a good definition of Long Range for general use here. I think of long range as over 300yrds, but I lived 40 yrs in PA and hunted whitetails. I like the idea of 1 second, or maybe 3/4 is ideal.

"Physics for Dummies" is a great read for those of you interested in Physics and Trig as they apply to LRH as I do. I'm working on some kind of formula to predict right or left of target center... in relation to twist direction... when you have bore sighted the rifle on your table top looking out the window at your neighbors Ford truck hub cap centers thru the rifle bore.

 

[CatShooter]

I don't? Hmmm....OK.

A flat stick doesn't develop lift if held flat, it only develops lift if it is held at an angle, thereby creating an airfoil effect, unfortunately that also creates almost equivalent drag to the lift... Bill

That is NOT true - you have stepped into it.

I'm done with this silly ****!

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[AJ Peacock]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Bwait,

According to Exbal, a 200gr Oryx bullet (BC around .3xx) will fly 610yds in the first second of flight and will drop 156.7" from the line of the bore in that 1 second.

Changing only the bullet (to a Sierra 200gr with BC .58x) it will fly 690yds in the first second of flight and will drop 167.5" from the line of the bore in that 1 second.

So, it appears that the number of inches drop is not directly and solely related to the flight time of a bullet? If you want to argue about this, please take it up with the engineers at Exbal. Or keep posting on this thread.

I am going to open another thread to discuss "What is long range". If you want to discuss things like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and maybe argue the size of the pin" Feel free.

Have a nice day,
AJ

CS: I'll see you on another thread to discuss, I think you and Silvertip are right, 3/4 second might be about right.

 

[bwaites]

The reason I ask for the documents was to AVOID cluttering the thread, and the reason I kept posting was to keep it close to the top. Never mind, I'll remove the offending posts!

Sorry you feel that way!

Ciao!