W/T deer shot placement

[Albritton]

It's Rex from DownUnder
I Agree!
With any game hunting it's all about shot placement, for me you need to be a marksman before your a hunter.
Paper has no feelings and here ethics don't count. But when your hunting it's for me it's all about an ethical harvest. Accurate shot placement almost guarantees an instant or quick kill, makes for easier recovery on the hill and with a good neck shot less meat is damaged.
I mainly Hunt Sambar which are particularly tuff game, usually in rugged dense bush in Victoria's high country
My goto Sambar rifle is a Tikka in 300 Wm
A well placed sound from this has your animal on the ground QuickTime.
I reload and the best I could do was 1moa with the factory stock so I swapped it out for s rigid laminated stock, bedded the pillars first then the action and bottom metal producing a .6moa tack driver using the same reloads. It's topped with a Ziess HD5 on Leopold mounts.
(I've got to admit I used so much bedding compound the rifle almost went to sleep, for the same result I could have used less)
I've not hunted Whitetail but Sambar have thick chest and shoulder hide and for the best results I'm using 180 gr SSTs or TSX both are hard hitting but it's all about shot placement, where possible it's a neck shot or high shoulder shot- from any angle my target is the top of the heart!
For the best results do the hard yards on paper then go one better and bed the rifle, you'll be amazed at your new groups.
Respect your game - don't make it lame
Cheers from Australia

#1 High shoulder DRT. #2 Low shoulder, double lung top of heart DRT #3 Double lung (dead somewhere) #4 Neck shot.........big gamble, maybe DRT or wounded never to be seen again. If you miss 2 inches of cervical spine you have a horribly wounded animal that you may not find due to minimal blood loss from neck meat. In my humble opinion neck shots in all but a very few circumstances are as unethical a shot as headshootin a deer. Yes I know most of us can make that shot but if you have the time to aim at a 2" vertebrae you have more than enough time to put One center mass through both shoulders or lungs.

 

[Vortex!]

I think a neck shot is quite a bit better than a head shot because there is no jaw to shoot off of the neck.

 

[Albritton]

cervicle spine is an even smaller target than the skull, LOL. To each his own applies here.

 

[BJH]

I started using the high shoulder shot years ago and have had great luck. I aim about 1/3rd of the way down and it takes out the spine and breaks shoulder, and takes out vitals. Aside for minimal meat loss, I can't see any negatives to this method. I have yet to get to an animal that was still alive. As long as the right cartridge loaded with the right bullet is used it will work great.

 

[LVJ76]

1)Double lung and heart 2)Throught the shoulder to vitals 3)Neck shot. Which one is correct? All hunts are different, I've taken several Desert Mule Deer with neck shots because that is all I see, all I saw was the neck, head and antlers, the rest of the body was covered by brush, and all shots were dead on, but I knew I could make them and I did. I once killed a coues whitetail with 3 shots on the boiler room, 3, no heart or lungs left, all literrally destroyed. The first shot he was standing at 375 yards, the following 2 shots when he was running, all 3 shots measured less than 4 inches in diameter and he still ran 100+ yards, he finalky fell before I fired a 4th shot, with a 270 using partitions. Were they unethical shots? No. I've taken that shot in multiple occasions including in the mulie in my avatar, at 175 yards with my 7x08 with 139gr SST, it fell where it stood the second he got hit. I've taken several where I've gone through the shoulder because that was the best shot I was going to get. If anyone thinks a deer won't run after a shoulder hit and the vitals destroyed? Think again, I've seen them run 70 yards on 3 legs.

It is to each one of us to make the right and ethical decision on every situation we encounter, and will we always make the right one? Maybe not cause we ain't perfect. We all make mistakes, we flinch, we jerk the trigger, read the wind wrong, who knows, million things can go wrong

At the end of the day, we each have to live with our decisions and hopefully knowing that we made the right one.

We all have our way we hunt and we should respect it, whether we agree with it ir not.

I saw some of you mentioned Nathan Foster and Ballistic Studies, if you are not familiar with his work, you need to, he has a world of knowledge to offer, get the books, they are worth it.

Beat regards

LVJ76

 

[Albritton]

1)Double lung and heart 2)Throught the shoulder to vitals 3)Neck shot. Which one is correct? All hunts are different, I've taken several Desert Mule Deer with neck shots because that is all I see, all I saw was the neck, head and antlers, the rest of the body was covered by brush, and all shots were dead on, but I knew I could make them and I did. I once killed a coues whitetail with 3 shots on the boiler room, 3, no heart or lungs left, all literrally destroyed. The first shot he was standing at 375 yards, the following 2 shots when he was running, all 3 shots measured less than 4 inches in diameter and he still ran 100+ yards, he finalky fell before I fired a 4th shot, with a 270 using partitions. Were they unethical shots? No. I've taken that shot in multiple occasions including in the mulie in my avatar, at 175 yards with my 7x08 with 139gr SST, it fell where it stood the second he got hit. I've taken several where I've gone through the shoulder because that was the best shot I was going to get. If anyone thinks a deer won't run after a shoulder hit and the vitals destroyed? Think again, I've seen them run 70 yards on 3 legs.

It is to each one of us to make the right and ethical decision on every situation we encounter, and will we always make the right one? Maybe not cause we ain't perfect. We all make mistakes, we flinch, we jerk the trigger, read the wind wrong, who knows, million things can go wrong

At the end of the day, we each have to live with our decisions and hopefully knowing that we made the right one.

We all have our way we hunt and we should respect it, whether we agree with it ir not.

I saw some of you mentioned Nathan Foster and Ballistic Studies, if you are not familiar with his work, you need to, he has a world of knowledge to offer, get the books, they are worth it.

Beat regards

LVJ76

First of all a partition bullet on thin skinned game will not not be as effective as a bullet that will have quicker expansion, partition bullets would be better suited for thick skinned large game where penetration and bullet weight retention is needed. Your Mulie shot with the SST is an example of using the right bullet for the game hunted, that's why it "fell where it stood". If you would have made a high shoulder shot on that Coues with those partitions you would have taken out both shoulders and you wouldn't have had to make 3 more shots to kill him. Do you usually keep shooting till they quit twitching?
But then again if you can shoot 4" groups on a running deer at 375 yds then you could just use the partitions to make head shots at 375 yds and expansion will not matter.
4" groups at 375 yds on a running deer is some great shooting and almost as impressive as my ability To quail hunt with my single shot .22. I Just wait for them to get 40 to 50 yards out after the dogs jump them then shoot them in the back of the head that way it doesn't damage any meat.

 

[LVJ76]

Albritton, your right, if I had hit both shoulders he would've gone down on the spot but I did not want to damage the meat. In 1993 in Mexico, we didnt have the availability of bullets we have here in the US, so me made due with what we could get, and some of the advanced bullets we have now didn't exist then.

I learned at a young age to shot at moving targets, we had silhouettes in a couple of shooting ranges that we're set up on a rail system to simulate running deer and javelina. I also grew up shooting skeet and hunting lots and lots of dove and quail, so we practiced with lots off moving targets and game.

We also didnt have a way of learning from others like we do now, we can learn how a bullet works and what shot is best because we have forums like this.

Best regards

LVJ76

 

[Albritton]

I think that choice of bullet construction and intended terminal performance is one of the most ignored aspects of hunting. Many hunters will hit the woods with a high $ custom rifle, $15000 sided by side, latest and greatest clothes, binoculars, game calls, scent eliminators and every other in fad doodadd and barely give a second thought to the projectile.
Dangerous game hunters on a whole probably pay closer attention to terninal performance than most for obvious reasons LOL.

 

[LVJ76]

I would encourage everyone to read the information on the link below and once in that website go through the cartridge research as well. You will get tons of great and detailed information from Nathan Foster on what bullets work for what and at what ranges

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

This will help you take the shot you want by using the appropriate bullet for that situation and animal.

Best regards

LVJ76

 

[LVJ76]

Also, for all new shooters and even the experienced ones, get his books.

 

[Bravo 4]

People frown upon me quite often when I say I try to smash at least one shoulder. I used to shoot the classic "behind the shoulder" shot, heart/lungs. However several years back I had 2 occasions that I kind of see as anomalies, but shows the unpredictability of hunting. Two whitetail bucks, both shot behind shoulder with a 7mm RemMag and appropriate deer bullets (ballistic tip, SST). The first was probably the biggest buck I'll ever kill (a 170 class or better, and on public land): 75 yards chasing doe, at shot seen instant red rose of death so I know placement was good, deer ran right past me and straight to an old dirt road by where we were camped (about 200 yards), deer died by road in front of my camp and my best friend inadvertently helped a fella steal my deer. Second buck was a pretty decent one at under 200, again seen the red rose so knew shot placement, deer ran maybe 100 yards and jumped into a severely flooded-fast moving creek and was never seen again. I don't care if I lose the shoulder(s), losing that little bit of meat is better than not having any!

 

[LVJ76]

When using a magnum rifle or a rifle with magnum speeds and using soft bullets like the BT or SST on the lower bullet weight at short distances or close shots you will see bullet blowup do to the high speeds of the bullet. For example, using a 120gr or 140gr BT or a 139gr SST on my 7 Rem Mag when the bullet hits its just complete disintegration without penetration. I witnessed this on a Javelina I shot when I first got my 7 Rem Mag, it was at just over 330 yards away and I miss read the wind and hit him in the front shoulder instead of the head with a 140gr BT, it fell and rolled down the steep hill. When I got to it it was dead with a shoulder blown away and the vitals barely touched. The approximate speed of the bullet upon impact was around 2,900 fps, so now I only use bullets that are a little tougher and 150gr or more. For example the 162gr SST is ideal for the 7 Rem Mag, this one won't blowup, it gives you the perfect expansion and penetration. Then bonded bullets also work great at high magnun speeds.
On my 7x08 the 140gr BT, BST and 139gr SST work perfectly at the speed of this caliber, perfect expansion and penetration.

 

[one crazy kid]

I feel very blessed to have never lost a wounded animal in the last 10 years of hunting. I have tracked a deer farther than I would like to admit, and had one real scare this last fall. I shot a black tail buck on Kodiak Island with my great, great grandfathers Remington gamemaster in .35 rem. I hit him dead center at about 75 yds and he didn't even flinch, he just kept walking towards me. I hit him again at about 30 yds an inch behind the first, he hunched up a little and kept moving. Fortunately, he dropped 15 yards later though it took a couple of minutes for him to expire. Not a great situation to be in, especially in bear country. I was using Remington core-lock for ammo, my big take away was that bullet selection is the single most important consideration. Many cartridges are capable of doing many things, but, matching the bullet to the game and to the terrain/range is key. I got lucky this fall, I made two good ethical shots, but I was handi-caped by bullet selection.

 

[Bravo 4]

When using a magnum rifle or a rifle with magnum speeds and using soft bullets like the BT or SST on the lower bullet weight at short distances or close shots you will see bullet blowup do to the high speeds of the bullet. For example, using a 120gr or 140gr BT or a 139gr SST on my 7 Rem Mag when the bullet hits its just complete disintegration without penetration. I witnessed this on a Javelina I shot when I first got my 7 Rem Mag, it was at just over 330 yards away and I miss read the wind and hit him in the front shoulder instead of the head with a 140gr BT, it fell and rolled down the steep hill. When I got to it it was dead with a shoulder blown away and the vitals barely touched. The approximate speed of the bullet upon impact was around 2,900 fps, so now I only use bullets that are a little tougher and 150gr or more. For example the 162gr SST is ideal for the 7 Rem Mag, this one won't blowup, it gives you the perfect expansion and penetration. Then bonded bullets also work great at high magnun speeds.
On my 7x08 the 140gr BT, BST and 139gr SST work perfectly at the speed of this caliber, perfect expansion and penetration.

For the reason you state I only used heavy for caliber ballistic tip type bullets, 150 BT and 162 SST in the 7 mag.