Tucker will make Liberal heads explode tomorrow !!

[2buffalo]

I give up. You are looking for an argument. I don't have an agenda here.

I'm not looking for anything. I am giving facts and telling the whole story not part of it. The stock market and inflation tell the story that many don't want to admit. Not sure how that leads you to say I am looking for an argument. Carry on.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

gross figures work a whole lot better for picking sides. And the word "relative"

Net results tell the FACTS. Inconvenient for some to use those numbers.

 

[The Oregonian]

I'm not looking for anything. I am giving facts and telling the whole story not part of it. The stock market and inflation tell the story that many don't want to admit. Not sure how that leads you to say I am looking for an argument. Carry on.

Lots of misstatements on the market…

Here are the returns for VFIAX, Vanguard's S&P index fund.

A few items to note on some things that have been posted:

• I'm not arguing politics, inflation, etc with this info. Those are separate (but very important) discussions - this is in response to the 'I've lost money in my 401k' discussion.
• The market didn't perform poorly in early 2021. It tanked in early 2020, which was under a different administration. See the quarterly return picture.
• If anyone has lost money since Trump or Biden took over, it is due to lack of diversification and risk management or poor investment choices and not due to the broad market performance.
• Target date funds are, IMO, overly conservative and leave lots of returns on the table in the name of conservatism and risk avoidance, at least compared to an S&P index fund. If someone is young that will add up over time (and they can take on more risk while young, also). If someone were to invest $12k/yr ($1k/mo) in a retirement plan for 30 years at 7%, and another did the same and got 8%, the latter person would have $270k more than the 7% person. When you get within 10ish years of retirement, re-evaluate investment choices to lower risk and gain stability if desired.
• If you have been making regular contributions to your 401k then it is even harder to imagine losing money under either administration. With the market dips and being at an all time high (the S&P, not the Nasdaq), virtually all contributions should have generated a positive return.
• The Dow is irrelevant when discussing market returns - it is a collection of 30 stocks, whereas the S&P is obviously 500 and the Nasdaq is 100 stocks.

Because the original statement that started this discussion was about losing value in someone's 401k, and that started a discussion about that specific statement. Of course it is relevant to overall returns - after all, nominal returns mean very little and it's real returns that investors care about.

I'm not defending Biden or saying that market returns under Trump weren't significantly better. I'm saying that people are coming up with these "facts" on their own and it undermines the whole discussion. The following statement is in no way factual. "Its pretty common knowledge most people have lost a significant amount in there 401 under biden". As I said in my post, my post was made towards that discussion.

I've twice acknowledged the inflation aspect…I'll do it again. Nominal returns tell half the story and don't mean **** when there is elevated inflation. I'm not only not debating that, I am agreeing with it now a third time. Nor am I arguing for Biden against Trump here.

I was specifically talking about these comments down below…In general, people talk in nominal terms when talking like that. Like was said before…I had $400k in my account when Brandon took office and now I am down to $320k. That is what he was referring to and that is what I was rebutting. I, not disagreeing with you, I'm intentionally constraining the focus to these comments while acknowledging that it tells half the story.

I picked the Vanguard fund bc it is one of the largest 401k providers and asset managers and this is their flagship S&P index fund. Pick any reasonable measure you want and the broad market is up nominally but if you want to know true performance you need to look at real returns and performance.

From 2021 to present i have lost money in my 401k. Keep drinking the koolaid

You think your 401k doesn't fluctuate monthly let alone yearly? Tells me you don't have one. The average 401 is down 20% since nimrod took office

 

[69precision]

Actually thats not where it started. It started with someone saying their 401k was going through the roof and that gas prices were down (up 33% under Biden and more if you take the average over the last 3 years).

Well it's where it started for me because that's what I was responding to. And seems Oregonian is saying the same. I guess whatever you are responding to is something different.

 

[cajun]

To be fair lets not forget that the seeds of this inflation were planted by congress during Trumps term. During covid in 2020 the treasury was mailing out checks, child tax credits and paycheck protection so called loans to business. Many not affected by covid. In fact the Republicans balked at the last stimulus payments but Trump sided with democrats to get it through. It's a fact you can look it up. Trump of course was trying to get re elected. Then Biden throws another trillion on top of that with his "inflation reduction act" stimulus. Got to love how politicians name these bills.

 

[victor3ranger]

To be fair lets not forget that the seeds of this inflation were planted by congress during Trumps term. During covid in 2020 the treasury was mailing out checks, child tax credits and paycheck protection so called loans to business. Many not affected by covid. In fact the Republicans balked at the last stimulus payments but Trump sided with democrats to get it through. It's a fact you can look it up. Trump of course was trying to get re elected. Then Biden throws another trillion on top of that with his "inflation reduction act" stimulus. Got to love how politicians name these bills.

If everyone hasn't figured it out by now that pretty much every single politician in Washington and pretty much every state level politician is totally corrupt and responsible for the destruction of this country I don't know what it's going to take for people to see it.

 

[Jmatt]

Everyone HAS figured that out. Unfortunately the politicians, along with both medias and the entrenched leaders of our cherished institutions, have figured out that Divide and Conquer still works like a charm on We the People. Right now, Trump is the tool that's doing the dividing and if he dies I swear the Dems will prop him up like Weekend at Bernies for as long as they can still use him to split the country like a maul. As long as we keep allowing ourselves to be split into warring factions, we will continue to get what we deserve. And yeah, it's a real shame.

 

[Ndfarmer]

Very true but electing a rino republican that wants all the horrific policies of the liberals will only ruin the country faster!

 

[Syncerus1]

A fine crop of opinions/facts/revelations... The basic problem in today's world is lack of unbiased "news" and any semblance of reporting on salient issues. It's all fluff and hype. Does is it really matter who wins the Superbowl? Who is dating whom? What any celebrity has to say?

 

[Jmatt]

As the Romans used to call it: "Panem et Circensus" Bread and circus!

There truly is nothing new under the sun.
So sayeth the preacher.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

A fine crop of opinions/facts/revelations... The basic problem in today's world is lack of unbiased "news" and any semblance of reporting on salient issues. It's all fluff and hype. Does is it really matter who wins the Superbowl? Who is dating whom? What any celebrity has to say?

There is more concern among people these days about garbage like that than pertinent matters. The world wide warping web keeps the immaterial material flowing like the TV and radio do.
Many "citizens" dont even know who is manning the top posts, much less what they supposedly stand for or against.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Seems the negatives get about 5x the coverage as anything positive eh?

 

[Idaho Lefty]

You think your 401k doesn't fluctuate monthly let alone yearly? Tells me you don't have one. The average 401 is down 20% since nimrod took office

YUP,.. THIS ^^^
The so called, 60-40, "Diversified" Portfolio, HAS, "Dropped" a Bunch but, the Big Magnificent 7 , have Done,.. WELL, if, IF, you were in, those !
( and so has an,.. S & P Index Fund ). BUT,..."Fixed Income" Bonds , etc., HAS Sucked, tho,.. Until recently !
Thankfully, I've been drawing Nice, CEF/ ETF,. Dividends thru all, the Bull Chit, while awaiting,. THE,. Build Back better,.. "Recovery",.. B/S !
TRILLIONS spent by, THIS current Admin AND, Congress, have "Demolished, the Value" of, Our Dollars !
Trump - Ramaswamy for POTUS and, VP, to save, what's "left" of, the good ole' USA !

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I don't see an attack. Just a statement that indexing funds actually weathered the storm.

My son ( 45 y/o ) and, a Stock "Trader", HAS done, very WELL, also !!
But, he was, In and Out of, the Q's and, mostly HELD, the S & P 500 index ,.. BUT,..
Most Seniors, have a LOT of Dollars, in FIXED Income ( Bonds and Convertable / Preferred, chit ),.. and we LOST about, 25% of our Money, If we SOLD, due to, High Interest Rates and, sky HIGH, Inflation !
Fortunately, I have 55% of My $$$'s in Stocks ( Mag 7 and S & P, chit ) so those offset "some" of, the ugly, Fixed Income, LOSSES,..
BUT, it was real Ugly until, Lately ( Fixed Income IS, finally, starting to, Recover ). Fixed Income Dividends are, NEEDED by Seniors for, Month to Month Living expenses ! Lucky or Smart,.. YOU were, in the "Right place", THIS, Time ( Even a Blind Squirrel, gets an Acorn, every once, in a while ).
PS;.. FJB and his ENTIRE, Administration