Tubbs Final Finish

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by davkrat, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

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    I ran the Final Finish through my 7mm Rem Mag hoping I could reduce copper fouling with lead free ETips. My barrel is a SS Rem 700 26" take off. It has around 200 rounds through it and copper fouls like crazy. I'm constantly chasing a narrow window of clean to slightly fouled for accuracy. I loaded up all 50 bullets with a starting load of CFE223. I bought the CFE in hopes of using it with ETips in my .308. I was never able to get the reported velocity increase from CFE in my .308 and accuracy was not as good as Varget. Figured this would be a great way to use up the pound I have and might help reduce copper fouling during fire lapping.

    Started off with a dead clean barrel and shot a 5 shot group of my previous ETip load where accuracy was best at a .100" jump. I then ran through the Tubbs loads stopping to clean every 5 shots. Following those first 5 ETips the lands in my gun looked like brand new pennies! I used a combination of Hoppes, Shooter Choice copper remover and Flitz. Previously Flitz was the only thing that would really get the copper out short of spending an entire evening running multiple patches of ammonia down it every 15 minutes. By 15 shots in to the Tubbs kit copper fouling was not an issue at all. Combination of the 130 grain lead core bullet, compound and CFE powder? Who knows but clean up quickly sped up as I went through the grits. At the end of the fire lapping I again cleaned the bore and shot a group of ETips. The first two shots at 280 yards were less than an inch apart. The next three moved up and to the left in to a little more than a MOA group. Shooting off sticks following 55 rounds of unbraked 7 Mag I was not let down. We'll see if accuracy improves at all with an adjusted load but hopefully the fliers starting as the copper fouling increases will take much longer with the newly polished bore.

    Right in line with what I have read in other's posts my distance to the lands increased .045" and my previous accurate load increased by 60 fps. The copper streaking following that last group of ETips was drastically worse than the fire lapping bullets but nothing like the first 5 ETips. I believe fouling is just the nature of the copper solids. Definitely going to do my copper factory .308 next. Hopefully later this week I will get a chance to go out and dial in a new seating depth and perhaps get a few more grains of powder in for more velocity.
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    You're messed up in a few ways for sure.
    -For one, Tubb's FF does not polish a bore. It laps bores. NEVER polish a bore (with something like Flitz), as this increases copper fouling.
    -Second, copper fouling a bore with five shots of offending bullets -before FF, is not in the procedure.
    -Third, Tubb's FF did not move your lands 45thou.. 10 full boxes of FF wouldn't do that.
     
  3. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

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    I did not prefoul my bore by firing five shots. I fired a baseline group of five to doublecheck velocity and grouping prior to fire lapping. I then cleaned it straight back to bare metal prior to running the final finish bullets. The instructions by the way state "Excellent results come also with JB Bore Compound or USB Bore Paste, both are highly recommended for use prior to starting the FinalFinish process." Exactly what i did. Everything I have read says that Flitz is even less abrasive than JB. So once again I cLeaned it down to bare metal, not much sense lapping copper fouling rather than barrel steel.

    I have read repeatedly that the COAL to reach the lands will move anywhere from .030-.100 following the process so I don't think I screwed up at all. I believe even Tubbs states it will move in the .030" range and you wil have to rework your load following it.
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Tubbs does not affect lands that much. Maybe 1/10th that much -and only in extreme use.
    J-B NON-EMBEDDING BORE CLEANING COMPOUND is not at all the same as Flitz. It does not polish(regardless of merchandising). It's more coarse than a polish.
    Be careful not to use J-B BORE BRIGHT though.. This will polish, and it will increase copper fouling(regardless of merchandising).

    A perfectly lapped bore, from the best in barrel makers, is not polished.
     
  5. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

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    Okay, if it makes you feel better I ruined my bore and/or am incapable of measuring the distance to the lands. Maybe all I did was remove a stubborn carbon ring. If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. I on the other hand will continue to shoot my rifle and report back whether or not it improved.
     
  6. chad

    chad Well-Known Member

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    I thought you wanted your bore to be as mirrored finished as you could get it? Am I missing something?
     
  7. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    When is it cheaper to simply buy a match barrel that was hand lapped at the factory before chambering and crowning ? I personally will never waste a $ on a factory barrel again... If you are happy with yours, thats all that counts.
     
  8. Dgd6mm

    Dgd6mm Well-Known Member

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    I do as Joe Hendricks suggests for barrel maintenance in my 6MM Competition Match which are Krieger's. My tac rifle ,almost 4000 rounds down it. At less then 100 rounds ago I put it on paper at 600 yards, .4 moa 5 shot group, bipod prone. I use Isosso Borepaste every 200-300 rounds, you do the math. I know this is not BR winning accuracy, but just before the 600 yard group my 100 yard 5 shot group was a high .2tenths of an inch group.. Maintain your barrel the way you want to, and don't give any concern to what others say. The accuracy this barrel had for the first 3000 rounds was outstanding. The only caution that I will suggest is which borepaste to use, you make an informed decision.
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    No, the best barrels are not polished. They're lapped.
    Neither J-B nor ISSO lap, but they don't polish either. They're very effective for managing carbon -without boosting copper fouling.

    When Flitz or J_B Bore Bright are removing carbon, they're polishing it away. It's best you just never do this, because once you've increased copper fouling with it, there really is no going back..
    And you can polish away the lapping in an aftermarket barrel (not just a factory barrel).