Time to get serious need some help

[mooretitan]

Well for years i have just shot the 100 yard sight in and then went hunting. Never really taught about getting out there on medal or paper until the last year or so but I have tried lately to start pushing things and have gotten out to 300 on paper the last couple times. This last weekend shot at some explosive targets at 400 and 550 yards. At 400 i was using my new 300win mag sendro and was just using hold over but was able to hit on the second shot on a 3 inch target. Used my friend new 7mag with turrets and dialed up to 550 and again connected on my second shot.

Here my problem I need to fix. I consider anything that regular shots 1/2-3/4 MOA a good gun. I know internet people do better and I have shot some that are a lot better but i don't do it every time.
1. It seems that after reviewing a lot of my targets I am getting lots of double groups in all of the guns I shoot. I believe this is because of the sandbags and rest that I use. I am shooting only shot bags filled with sand and I am having to work to get everything lined up. I think my table and rear bag are to low and its not a natural line of sight between my body and rifle. Could this be a problem. it doesn't happen all the time but enough to notice it is a problem for me in all guns.

2. i have also notice that i have small changes in impact between different shooting trips. Last time I was out I was 1inch high at a 100y with a 5 shot group less than MOA. This last time I was about a 1/2 inch high with a five shot group still under MOA and same left to right. Wondering again if this comes back to set up and not aligning everything into a relaxing natural line of sight. Or is small variances part of the game. Or is the scope not holding zero. Most of guns have leupold glass.

3. I have a 243 that every time I go to the range shots 1/2 inch to 1 inch right on every trip. I keep adjusting the scope but it just never seems move/hold the correcting. This is like 4-5 different trips. The scope is a rifleman and doesn't have click adjustments. Wondering if i should send it back.

4. Last questions. I bring 5-6 different guns out on each trip so I have a lot to shoot when the others are cooling. I am focusing on to many guns. Should I just bring one or two and just focus on them. All my guns with reloads and bench time shoot under MOA and most shoot between 1/2 and 3/4 inch Moa so i am not complaining but would like to solve these little things so I am more at the 1/2 inch and under MOA so I can get out to 500-700 yards and feel good about everything.

Thanks sorry so long winded

 

[Dosh]

moore, find yourself a nice front rest and rear bag. 1/2-3/4 MOA for all five is pretty good. If the scope won't hold a setting find a better one. Good luck

 

[royinidaho]

From having been where you are, though long, long ago listen up.

I was told years ago, didn't listen, then learned the hard way but now I know…."Experience is the best education as long as it is someone else's experience":roll eyes:

First the harsh stuff. You seem tough enough to take it.gun)

Long range hunting has nothing to do with shooting a tight consistent group. It has everything to do with placing the first cold bore shot, under any hunting condition that your may encounter, in the expected point of impact.

Having said that ya gotta be able to get consistent accuracy at the range.

I'd strongly consider taking only one or two rifles to the range, unless the range is a long drive. When I go to the mountain to check drops I usually take 4 to 6 hours and shot possibly only that many shots. Note that this is after all load and rifle tuning is fully complete.

Next I'd consider moving from the bench to the ground. You'll hardly ever do any long range hunting from a bench. I'd guess some of your inconsistencies are from position changes at the bench. Things such as cheek weld, shoulder pressure, placement of non-trigger hand and placement of trigger finger on the trigger.

Snag yourself a bipod of a decent quality. The rig a rear bag to your liking. The heavier the better in my book. Being solid is of highest priority. That is on both ends of the rifle.

It seems that your rifles are accurate enough and that shooting consistency needs improvement.

Here's a couple of good reads that may be of benefit:

Fitting The Long Range Rifle

And:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/bipod-techinque-20856/

What applies to bipods also applies to sandbags.

Hope this helps.

 

[Grumulkin]

It seems that after reviewing a lot of my targets I am getting lots of double groups in all of the guns I shoot. I believe this is because of the sandbags and rest that I use. I am shooting only shot bags filled with sand and I am having to work to get everything lined up. I think my table and rear bag are to low and its not a natural line of sight between my body and rifle. Could this be a problem. it doesn't happen all the time but enough to notice it is a problem for me in all guns.

While you would be better off with made-for-purpose sandbags, I doubt that's your problem. Sometimes the problem can be from inconsistent powder ignition. When it burns right you get one group and in the cartridges it doesn't burn quite right, you get another group. It happens to me to; if someone has the definite answer and cure I'd be most grateful.

i have also notice that i have small changes in impact between different shooting trips. Last time I was out I was 1inch high at a 100y with a 5 shot group less than MOA. This last time I was about a 1/2 inch high with a five shot group still under MOA and same left to right. Wondering again if this comes back to set up and not aligning everything into a relaxing natural line of sight. Or is small variances part of the game. Or is the scope not holding zero. Most of guns have leupold glass.

Some guns do this and some don't so much. It probably has something to do with temperature, humidity, etc. I have mostly higher end scopes; Leupold Mark 4s and Nightforce and it happens to me. Of course, it could be your scope isn't holding zero. Also, if your scope has adjustment for parallax, make sure it's set properly.

I have a 243 that every time I go to the range shots 1/2 inch to 1 inch right on every trip. I keep adjusting the scope but it just never seems move/hold the correcting. This is like 4-5 different trips. The scope is a rifleman and doesn't have click adjustments. Wondering if i should send it back.

I would send it back. It won't cost you anything but postage and I think what you describe is a scope problem.

Last questions. I bring 5-6 different guns out on each trip so I have a lot to shoot when the others are cooling. I am focusing on to many guns. Should I just bring one or two and just focus on them. All my guns with reloads and bench time shoot under MOA and most shoot between 1/2 and 3/4 inch Moa so i am not complaining but would like to solve these little things so I am more at the 1/2 inch and under MOA so I can get out to 500-700 yards and feel good about everything.

I generally shoot just one or two guns during a session but then I don't have to drive to shoot; I have to walk all the way to my back yard. I think with shooting that many guns, I would probably lose some of my concentration.

The suggestion was made to shoot prone. While I agree that prone is a very steady position and I've used it hunting for some pretty long shots, it's also uncomfortable for me so I do most of my shooting from the bench.

 

[Punisher]

I spend lots of quality time with just one rifle at a time. And then I use that rifle for almost anything and everything. I may shoot for 4 hours, but I will wait long enough in between shots that the barrel is back to ambient temperature. All hunting is done on a cold bore shot, which is rarely in the center of your zero.

Long range shooting takes lots of time, equipment and money.

Pick your favorite shooting rifle and upgrade the glass. You don't have to go Nightforce right off, but a vortex viper will be good. Some models start for under $400.

I use a 6-24x50 vortex viper PST, SFP illuminated with MOAR reticle.

It is an awesome entry level long range scope running $750 new.

Like some of the other guys said about your sand bags, get a good set and don't look back. In the field, you will probably shoot from a bipod with a rear bag. You will probably end up prefering a leather rear bag. So you might as well just go that way from the start.

 

[jackem]

From having been where you are, though long, long ago listen up.

I was told years ago, didn't listen, then learned the hard way but now I know…."Experience is the best education as long as it is someone else's experience":roll eyes:

First the harsh stuff. You seem tough enough to take it.gun)

Long range hunting has nothing to do with shooting a tight consistent group. It has everything to do with placing the first cold bore shot, under any hunting condition that your may encounter, in the expected point of impact.

Having said that ya gotta be able to get consistent accuracy at the range.

I'd strongly consider taking only one or two rifles to the range, unless the range is a long drive. When I go to the mountain to check drops I usually take 4 to 6 hours and shot possibly only that many shots. Note that this is after all load and rifle tuning is fully complete.

Next I'd consider moving from the bench to the ground. You'll hardly ever do any long range hunting from a bench. I'd guess some of your inconsistencies are from position changes at the bench. Things such as cheek weld, shoulder pressure, placement of non-trigger hand and placement of trigger finger on the trigger.

Snag yourself a bipod of a decent quality. The rig a rear bag to your liking. The heavier the better in my book. Being solid is of highest priority. That is on both ends of the rifle.

It seems that your rifles are accurate enough and that shooting consistency needs improvement.

Here's a couple of good reads that may be of benefit:

Fitting The Long Range Rifle

And:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/bipod-techinque-20856/

What applies to bipods also applies to sandbags.

Hope this helps.

+1 Great advise!

 

[mooretitan]

I take between 5-6 guns and my range is about an hour to get there and another 20 minutes to get everything set up and ready to go. I shoot between 2-3 hours when I go and shoot between 40-60 rounds total. I might take 1-2 guns next time and really focus on getting everything settled in and take longer between shots.

I believe that the guns and loads that I have developed are good and can stay with in 1/2 moa out to 200y and MOA pass that.

I think I am the main problem. I am also shooting Barnes TTSX and believe that longer ranges they are not as good as Bergers for paper.

 

[varmintH8R]

From having been where you are, though long, long ago listen up.

I was told years ago, didn't listen, then learned the hard way but now I know…."Experience is the best education as long as it is someone else's experience":roll eyes:

First the harsh stuff. You seem tough enough to take it.gun)

Long range hunting has nothing to do with shooting a tight consistent group. It has everything to do with placing the first cold bore shot, under any hunting condition that your may encounter, in the expected point of impact.

Having said that ya gotta be able to get consistent accuracy at the range.

I'd strongly consider taking only one or two rifles to the range, unless the range is a long drive. When I go to the mountain to check drops I usually take 4 to 6 hours and shot possibly only that many shots. Note that this is after all load and rifle tuning is fully complete.

Next I'd consider moving from the bench to the ground. You'll hardly ever do any long range hunting from a bench. I'd guess some of your inconsistencies are from position changes at the bench. Things such as cheek weld, shoulder pressure, placement of non-trigger hand and placement of trigger finger on the trigger.

Snag yourself a bipod of a decent quality. The rig a rear bag to your liking. The heavier the better in my book. Being solid is of highest priority. That is on both ends of the rifle.

It seems that your rifles are accurate enough and that shooting consistency needs improvement.

Here's a couple of good reads that may be of benefit:

Fitting The Long Range Rifle

And:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/bipod-techinque-20856/

What applies to bipods also applies to sandbags.

Hope this helps.

Listen to Roy, this is great advice. I kind of learned the hard way as well. I could set up at the bench and lay them right in there one after another. Doing load development and trying to take 10ths out of my groups. I started getting serious about LRH, started shooting prone using field set-ups, and was consistently frustrated at my inconsistency in cold-bore precision.

I was going through my equipment, tightening everything up, checking for what "changed". Turns out, I just sucked at shooting from field positions. Only way to solve that is through practice - it is amazing how much it really does effect your capability.

I still use my bench set-up for load development, but nothing more.

Brandon

 

[junkie]

I am also shooting Barnes TTSX and believe that longer ranges they are not as good as Bergers for paper.

Please don't sell the Barnes short in my 300WM I had a 3 shot 800yd group of 6 inches with Barnes ttsx. Now they may not shoot good in your gun but please don't think they are just a 3 moa hunting bullet

 

[MR.SWIFT]

practice and focus.

 

[mooretitan]

I think that I am going to slow it down and focus on shooting 1-3 gun over the course of the next few years until I have them down. I have pretty much done the load development part just have not gotten serious about extending the range for each gun. Seems like I am always just shooting at a 100 even though I have already shot at a 100 and know the gun is less than MOA with that load. I just have to start at 200 and go from there. I would like to paper at 200 and 400 and once I have the drops I will move the off the table and shoot steel with more hunting situations.

Problem I face is a end up picking another gun up and then start working on it before I have finished the others.