Thoughts on 150 gr TTSX performance in 7mm WBY MAG

[Spotter's Signature]

But if you want to seat them out a little further, try 150 triple shock. I shoot it out of my 300 Weatherby with a custom load and. I am able to seat them out a little further and still fit in the magazine. that load has five elk on it and many other animals. my furthest shot was at 603yds in Colorado in 2017.the next day my buddy used it at 73yds. Both elk down right there.

I'm 0.020" from my mag max. That would be meaningless in terms of increased powder volume. I don't move the projectile, as this BTO is optimal for my chamber and for this projectile, determined experimentally. Switching to the TSX would only result in using a projectile with a lower BC, for no gain. I noticed that the velocity plateau for the 150 gr TTSX in this rifle stretches over 77.3-78.7 gr of RSM, and the velocity gain over that is minimal - 70 fps! Even if I used more powder, the gain would be not worth developing a new load. Also, 300 WBY has more reach than a 7 WBY; you keep the velocity longer, with different characteristics bullets. People reported problems with TSX after they strike a hard target (e.g. a bone) - TSX hollow points get deformed and can't open, so they pencil through. That's what the blue tip was supposed to solve (and improve BC).

 

[Hoss50]

Send it, you will be fine. You have great speed on a good bullet. Make a good shot and you will be fine.

I use 168gr ttsx in my 300 weatherby at about 3200fps. I shot a cow elk at about 60yrds and she made it 40yrds. Full pass thru with golf ball exit. My buddy shot a cow elk with 165gr TTSX in a 308 win that are slow at about 2450fps. Same exact shot about 60 yards. His went DRT with a golf ball exit. Literally we shot the same animal with basically the same bullet in the exact same spot on the elk and on the map in the same field. Mine had substantial more velocity and energy, and ran. His had the same energy my rifle did if my shot was 450ish yards. His was bang flop.

 

[Spotter's Signature]

Send it, you will be fine. You have great speed on a good bullet. Make a good shot and you will be fine.

Thanks for the confidence booster. I'll likely be fine, the game probably won't. What I think will happen is, I'll stick to this load until I lose game, as long as I can prove to myself it was the bullet's fault.
About your situation, most likely shot placement... Even an inch will make a difference in severity of hydrostatic shock.

 

[Hoss50]

Thanks for the confidence booster. I'll likely be fine, the game probably won't. What I think will happen is, I'll stick to this load until I lose game, as long as I can prove to myself it was the bullet's fault.
About your situation, most likely shot placement... Even an inch will make a difference in severity of hydrostatic shock.

Pretty similar. I am the first pick. His might be just a touch farther forward.

 

[Spotter's Signature]

Just to clarify, I'm fully aware of the "drop the weight, gain velocity" mantra regarding the copper monos. I used to shoot 160 gr - 175 gr lead/copper bullets (too many to list here, haha...) in this rifle. So, I stepped down to 150 gr in copper. The suggestion to switch to 140 gr TTSX is not valid. After doing some math, I discovered that the 140 gr TTSX would fly about 150 fps faster (liberal assumption) in my rifle and would offer negligibly better performance within the first 200 yards (based on energy). After that its velocity is almost identical to the 150 gr TTSX, to eventually match its velocity at 700 yds, with less energy. Past the first 200 yards, 140 gr TTSX offers no meaningful advantage IMO, so it doesn't warrant load development cost, time and efforts (and barrel life).

Here's the ballistics of the 140 gr TTSX, leaving the muzzle ~150 fps faster than my 150 gr TTSX:


I've seen on this forum a hunter claiming shots with these copper bullets from a 7mm RM (!) on an elk at ~1100 yds! Supposedly, with no issues with its lethality, whatsoever. But, it's internet

To me, for now, 800 yds is the ethical limit. Most bullets take about a second to travel that, and a single second is a lot of time for an animal to move, excellent ballistics be damned...

 

[VinceMule]

I am fearful that the Barnes TTSX will not expand at a distance. I would run a 175g Nosler long-range accubond and never look back. A lack of expansion equals a lost bull.

800 is a poke, practicing at 600 and 800 will teach volumes. Figure 600 rounds on the barrel with it's best accuracy with all that .300 factory freebore. When the first barrel is shot out, consider using a reamer with .210 freebore using the 175-180g bullets.

It is all about bullet placement.

 

[JamesWilson5]

Please, let us know here what you settle for. And why!

Like I said it's hot I use this load in a sako and remington 700 both factory 26 inch barrel through my chronograph I'm getting 3557 fps .it is over max manual loads but I read pressure signs and . That's just under any pressure signs rl25 powder but it is devastating on whitetails. Velocity does crazy things

 

[Spotter's Signature]

I am fearful that the Barnes TTSX will not expand at a distance. I would run a 175g Nosler long-range accubond and never look back. A lack of expansion equals a lost bull.

800 is a poke, practicing at 600 and 800 will teach volumes. Figure 600 rounds on the barrel with it's best accuracy with all that .300 factory freebore. When the first barrel is shot out, consider using a reamer with .210 freebore using the 175-180g bullets.

It is all about bullet placement.

That's exactly my concerns, and one of the reasons for this post. The numbers say one thing about expansion (my system should work very well up to 700 yds) and occasionally it does not check out in reality. Hence the problem.

I shoot all the time, 300-1200 yds, different calibers. This hunting 7mm WBY has over 1000 rounds on it, with no observed loss of precision. The 150 gr TTSX gives me the best precision out of all bullets I tried in this rifle. I do not shoot a 300 WBY; my long range gun is a Bergara Ridgeback in 300 WIN MAG.

As stated before, ABLRs were one of the first projectiles I worked on, for a number of reasons. They do not shoot well in this rifle. Nosler recommends 1:9.5" twist; mine is 10". I did not see any keyholing, but... 168 gr gives me 1.1 MOA best and is erratic with Ramshot Magnum (velocity is very low; ~2775...), and over 2 MOA with Magpro (2950 fps); useless. I have not tried the heavier 175 gr ABLR (also 1:9.5" required), but the point here is to have a universal load that covers up to 700-800 yds, and all North American game animals. Hitting a small deer at say 50 yds with an ABLR (very soft) at top velocity would not be good. I've learned from incorrectly using SST bullets before. Vaporized lead is impossible to remove from meat, not to mention any bullet fragments or separation issues at this distance. I used a lot of 160 gr Accubonds, but I'd use those comfortably up to 500 yds, no further, in my system. That leaves the next 200-300 yds not covered, and that's why my interest in TTSX projectiles. I do realize that their performance degrades very fast with dropping velocity; it's just a question of where to draw the line as the max distance.

And, of course. Bullet placement.

 

[Koda_]

That leaves the next 200-300 yds not covered, and that's why my interest in TTSX projectiles. I do realize that their performance degrades very fast with dropping velocity; it's just a question of where to draw the line as the max distance.

The only way to prove this is with a gel or "meat target" at 800yds. Otherwise all you can do is trust ballistic estimations.
From what I read you've done your homework. If the TTSX needs 1700fps and your estimating you'll get 1691fps maybe consider stepping back to 700yd shots max. But on the flip side your experienced at long range hunting and can place your shot so 800max is probably reasonable with a high confidence shot placement.

I still think your GTG with this load.

 

[jjmp]

SpotterS, I was getting 3225 and was hard on brass. A Custom bbl would have really helped,but I worked with what I had. Every things a compromise, but eventually I knew the Barnes was the better bullet . This was back in 99 , the bull finally left cover and came into the clear 1117 yds ,he's body made his girls cows look like young heffers, I tried to count points and almost broke my glasses, Happly I sat there as he slowly walked out to his herium and they disappeared back into cover . Cheers

 

[VinceMule]

" Hitting a small deer at say 50 yds with an ABLR (very soft) at top velocity would not be good."

They are very good for us, they do not run off. My family uses the heavy for caliber LRAB and SST on smallish deer and hogs, no problems. 168 and 175g LRAB in 7 Mags, 154 SST in the 7 mag, we considered the 162 SST too tough, 95g SST in the 243 Win, and 140g SST in the various 6.5's.

I've learned from incorrectly using SST bullets before. Vaporized lead is impossible to remove from meat, not to mention any bullet fragments or separation issues at this distance

Sound like you have been reading way too much, right up there with Lead-Free bullets will save the California Condors.

My brothers, uncles, dad, cousins, and nephews are all serious hunters with one uncle who is a taxidermist and another who runs a deer processing unit. None of them have ever commented about finding bullet fragments in their deer meat, but I give you that it is an extreme possibility. A petal off of a copper bullet may be a worst-case scenario.

Our limit on deer this year is 10, used to be 15(no check stations, honor system). Our Cousin in Ga has a farm with a depredation permit, we pulled a car hauler with a 21 cubic foot freezer on it, for hunting for two weeks during the Rut.

Just about all we have shot has been Nosler ballistic tips, Hornady Interlocks, Hornady SSTs, Sierra Game King and Pro Hunters, SST, Berger VLD and Classic Hunting bullets, and some partitions and Swift Sirocco.

Two friends went to Africa on Safari for the 6 Plains game. They both carried Weatherby Mark 5s in 7 STW with 162 SST loaded to a muzzle velocity of 3150 fps, not even a hot load. All their game, including Eland and Kudu, hit the ground where they were standing. The PH wrote an article about how effective this bullet/velocity was on these very large animals.

If you want to shoot a copper bullet, consider a Hammer bullet. 450 yards is my limit on TTSX bullets, jeez, I hate to see deer running like their tail is on fire!

 

[Spotter's Signature]

The only way to prove this is with a gel or "meat target" at 800yds. Otherwise all you can do is trust ballistic estimations.
From what I read you've done your homework. If the TTSX needs 1700fps and your estimating you'll get 1691fps maybe consider stepping back to 700yd shots max. But on the flip side your experienced at long range hunting and can place your shot so 800max is probably reasonable with a high confidence shot placement.

Thanks.

Shot placement is not a concern here, I practice all the time in a year, minus the hunting season. The load I developed is excellent precision-wise.

This is a 300 yds 3-shot 7 mm WBY MAG 150 gr TTSX group when I was confirming the new load at a distance before hunting this season. Copper; way sub MOA.


I tested the load out to 700 yds; its precision is superb. Mind me, it's just my hunting rifle
I think I need to start being confident in this load, for now, by choice
I'll keep reporting if I have new findings.

 

[VinceMule]

Shoot some stuff, we would love to hear a good report!

I am concerned about the bullet just zipping through the animal like a FMJ.

Nothing like a hands-on experience like you are going to get, and I wish you the very best of luck. With the accuracy of your rifle, you don't need much luck!

 

[Spotter's Signature]

Sound like you have been reading way too much, right up there with Lead-Free bullets will save the California Condors.

Vince, I hope you're just teasing me. I love reading, there's never too much of it; it's the critical thinking that I see many people struggle with.
I could not care less about CA and their twisted laws; the lead ban being a real pearl. I picked this projectile exclusively for reasons I mentioned earlier in my posts.
I'm not here to convince anyone to anything. I research my projectiles and gather opinions. I teach toxicology. There is no safe level of lead in our body. The fact that somebody is still alive does not mean they did not sustain damage from lead traces, and may pay for it later in life. Or, they may not. Not all smokers die of lung cancer. I eat A LOT of deer meat and the exposure is additive from traces of lead. Butchers only trim stuff around the wound channel and it's impossible to remove all of it. Safe level of lead in our body is exactly zero "0", anything above it is detrimental. I'm not advocating for copper bullets over lead, I'm just explaining my reasoning that led me to try the copper monos.

"But, but... We ate lead contaminated deer meat for decades and we're fine".

So, in all... This is the first season when I'm trying the copper bullets; I used lead up to this year. That's a lot of lead... So far the copper bullets work for intended purpose, with some stipulation. And, ADDITIONALLY, they contain no lead, which is a plus not a disadvantage. Who doesn't love lead sprinkles in their venison, right? This is lifted from another post; fragments recovered from ballistic gel.



As to SST, I will not touch them again. I'm glad they work for others. I had two identical bad experiences in a row in two different calibers, described somewhere here. There is no reason to recalibrate my thinking. If I need to go back, I'll stick with Accubonds and Partitions.

I'm merely willing to give these copper mono projectiles a try, to see for myself what works and what doesn't. I'll adjust based on my findings.