Teen hunter shoots black bear/hiker woman in Oregon..

[shortshooter]

hiker killed

I have to agree with 25-06. The individual simply didn't take time and the care to identify the target.

It matters not what color of clothing/poncho the victim was wearing or where the sun was in relation to the shooter. The is simply no lame-*** excuse when it come to this type of situation. The gal could be even wearing an elk-horn hat, and still it wouldn't matter!

You NEVER shoot unless your sure of your target. Pure and simple! It doesn't get any more simple.

If you have someone yelling, "shoot, shoot", it still makes not one frickin' bit of difference.

When you go hunting you are hunting under the "states" codes/laws and taking part of a privilige of said state. Hunting is not a RIGHT like bearing arms happens to be, but rather a privilige regulated by the state's wildlife management or resource division.

This idiot just abused those priviliges and committed murder. Blue poncho, sunlight, or shoot, shoot, it doesn't matter. He killed an innocent human being because he didn't properly handle a firearm safety commandment. It's that simple and there can be no excuse for his actions. Now he's made it more difficult for other hunters to enjoy their privlidges.

The only excuse that I can imagine is perhaps the bullet may have been deflected by a "hard surface" and he didn't aim at the women.

Or perhaps the woman may have attacked him and it was self defense.

None of these appear to apply.

I'll be hunting bear this fall. I cannot imagine the situation that wouldn't allow me not to be able to distinguish my target. If I couldn't tell what species I was looking at I wouldn't attempt to even point my rifle muzzle at it.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Re: hiker killed

... The individual simply didn't take time and the care to identify the target.

This is the bottom line.

But...to say this young man *intentionally* shot another human being is something none of us know. People do get accidentally shot. There is no excuse for it, but it happens. I'm sure none of us have done anything stupid...right???

Let the investigation and process work it out. And as alrerady mentioned it is big lesson and reminder to all the rest of us in our own hunting practices and how we influence other hunters, especially young ones.

 

[ricknolan]

I hate to get on the wrong side of this argument but with no more "facts" than are present here, how can one say it was or was not an accident.

There could be dozens of circumstances that would support this case being an accident just like there could be dozens of facts to support otherwise.

All I am saying is we should not be to fast to come to conclusions without all the evidence being placed in front of us. This is very unfortunate to have happed to anyone. But for the uninformed to become the judge and executioner adds to the ludicrous nature of the entire incident.

That's my opinion based on 20 years of investigating human actions. You never know what happen till you explore all of the facts, and even then you can never be sure that you have found the truth.

 

[bwaites]

This is a very difficult situation, but accidents DO occur, that's why they are called "accidents". Not all the facts are available to us, and may never be. Compounding one tragedy by putting this kid in an unwinnable situation by prosecuting him isn't the answer in my book, at least not with the available facts so far.

Here is a much more easily reviewed story that happened to a local sheriffs deputy while hunting in open country, no trees, clear weather. The deputy reports having made eye contact with the shooter prior to being shot. (That part is not in this story, but was reported in others.)

Columbia Basin Herald story



Deputy remains at Harborview
EPHRATA - A Moses Lake floor installer was charged Monday in Grant County Superior Court in the hunting-related shooting of an off-duty Grant County deputy.

The courtroom's benches were full and deputies stood near the doorways to watch the proceeding.

Before a packed courtroom, Judge John Antosz set bail at $70,000 for Robbie Joe Marcher. Grant County Prosecutor John Knodell originally asked that Marcher's bail be $100,000.

Marcher, 38, of Moses Lake, was arrested for allegedly shooting deputy Earl Romig, 26, once in the back while Romig was coyote hunting near Soap Lake Thursday.

Romig survived the shooting, but received internal injures and it was initially believed his right leg could be paralyzed. He received X-rays on the leg Monday because he said he felt it break when he was shot, according to a hospital-sponsored patient information Web site.

He was listed in serious condition Monday afternoon in the intensive care unit at Seattle's Harborview Medical Center.

Marcher was charged with third-degree assault, unlawful possession of a firearm and failing to summon assistance. He later reportedly told detectives he thought he shot at a coyote and didn't return to see what he hit.

"It's a mixed bag, if you will," Antosz said. "He's not charged with an intentional crime."

Knodell said the police investigation into the shooting is ongoing and he's still receiving information. As a result, other charges could be recommended, he said.

Marcher wasn't supposed to have a gun because of a prior conviction and wasn't licensed to hunt, Knodell said.

Marcher's prior convictions include criminal trespassing, marijuana possession, malicious mischief, reckless driving and hunting during a closed season, Knodell said.

Knodell also claimed the three distress shots Romig fired after being shot could be heard by a passing motorist who was farther away than Marcher.

"I think it's clear from this information that Mr. Marcher fled the area knowing he shot a human being that obviously needed help," Knodell said.

According to court documents, Marcher received a phone call from his wife who told him there was a shooting in the area he and his father were hunting in.

In an interview with investigators Marcher reportedly said "he knew at the time he might have shot a person instead of a coyote but he didn't call authorities to advise a person may be shot and lying just west of the intersection of (Road) B N.W. and (Road) 21 N.W,," according to court documents.

After the proceeding, Knodell told the Columbia Basin Herald he is working to have a court order issued to remove all guns from Marcher's home.

Grant County Chief Deputy John Turley said the bail amount is fitting at this point. The onus is on investigators to prove if something other than an accidental shooting took place, he said.

Marcher is scheduled to enter his plea on Tuesday, Jan. 22, which is when his trial date is expected to be set. He will be appointed an attorney, Antosz said.

Look at the things this 38 year old adult KNEW and did nothing about:

1) He apparently admitted that he knew he might have hit a person.
2) He did not go to follow up his shot.
3) He could not have failed to hear the 3 shots the deputy fired as a distress signal.
4) He did not turn himself in when his wife notified him that someone had been shot near where he was hunting.
5) He shot a human standing upright, wearing blaze orange, (not in the article but later reported.)
6) He was not licensed to hunt.
7) He was not supposed to be in possession of a firearm.

Compare that with the 14 year old who SHOULD have known what he was shooting at in poor conditions and without adult supervision, and it looks a little like we should give the kid a break, huh?

I tend to believe the parents are as responsible as the kid, though.

Bill

 

[shortshooter]

Just imagine your wife out for a hike. She gets into her backpack to retrieve perhaps a poncho and bang. She is hit like an game animal with a bullet.

Oh, I'm sorry I thought your wife was a bear.

Think about the victim and the person who's dead and not the knucklehead who's still walking around.

I hope this young man gets a good attorney and has a honest and fair trial where the evidence is produced that will either incarcerate him or exhonorate him. He needs his day in court one way or the other.

 

[bwaites]

There doesn't appear to be any doubt about the facts: She was shot by a 14 year who was hunting unsupervised.

You can't recreate the circumstances, so what does the trial prove? He's acknowledged that he pulled the trigger, the evidence is that she is dead after being hit by the bullet. What does the court case prove? All that is left is deciding if the accident requires that he spend the rest of his life paying for his mistake. One life has been destroyed by this accident, does destroying his improve the situation? Does incarcerating him solve the problem of underage hunters hunting unsupervised?

This is already a tragedy, do we make it a bigger one by rushing to judgement?

In answering your original question. I would be devastated, but I hope I would also recognize that this is a young man who is probably almost as devastated as I was, and I hope I would be big enough to understand that accidents can and do happen.

I'm not excusing his part in the accident, but I am trying to make sure we don't sacrifice another life, simply to satisfy our need for revenge.

Washington Hunter Safety classes are pretty tough, at least from the class my son attended. (In Washington State, anyone born after 1972, I think, must attend a course before receiving their license.)

The kid made a mistake, no one is suggesting he didn't, but the adults involved can make just as big of a mistake if they handle it wrong.

 

[shortshooter]

He must have a trial unless he waives this right to councel or trial.

If this young man shot someone in town it would be murder. If he killed someone with a car, same thing.

Just because he killed someone while participating in an hunting venture, doesn't excuse him from not standing trial or prosecution for negligent behavior which he admitted to.

Having him stand trial is not a rush to judgement, but it is in fact a guarntee of his rights.

It seems that he has admitted that he shot this lady. If this is true than he admitted and would easily be found guilty if in a jury trial.

If indeed he shot this lady and he admitted, I think this young man should be punished under our legal system and given a taste of the gravity of the crime (so called) accident that he caused.

Taking a life with no cause, motivation, or just reason is wrong and you always point that muzzle in a safe direction away from people.

It's beyond me, with the equipment we all have how one can mistake an person for an animal. Hell, we spend $3000 on a scope and many thousands more on a rifle system in which we can hunt with out to 1500-2000 yds. We can see our animals with our binos and spotting scopes out to vast distances. We know the range, the humidity, the shot angle, the station pressure, time, day, year, spin drift and our birthday. Nothing is left to chance when a person takes a shot. It's deliberate and it has our intent when we launch a bullet.

It's unacceptable with what we know to even point a weapon at someone direction because we know that it's capable of traveling for a long distance.

 

[bwaites]

Shortshooter,

I agree that YOU know all those things, I doubt this kid did.

He screwed up, plain and simple.

Nevertheless, it was an accidental shooting from all reports, with no intent to harm a person.

Many years ago, a well known coach in Washington State shot at an elk or deer across the canyon. He could clearly see the head and body and it was a shot of less than 200 yards. What he didn't know was that his son had already shot the animal, and was standing behind it shielded by the overgrowth. The shot was high, and killed his son. Is he also guilty of a crime? IF so, what crime?

 

[shortshooter]

In my local area I know of three people who were shot and lived. They were mistaken for two were taking a walk and mistaken for bears? The other man was standing by his car on a rural county road and susposedly mistaken for an elk.

Sometimes a person may take a fall when taking a shot or some other abnormal accident may occur, and they can. But the identity thing is difficult to defend actions of the shooter.

I don't hope this yong fella any harm, but it's difficult to say if he realises the seriousness of his actions. I wonder if he realises that the woman he shot doesn't get a second chance.

 

[JD338]

This is indeed a very sad incident. Hunter Safety drills the students to be sure of your target and whats beyond. If this rule would have been followed, this shooting wouldn't have happened. As a state certified Hunter Safety Instructor here in MI, I can't help but blame the system for allowing a young kid to hunt without any supervision.
I have to agree that this kid needs his day in court and the laws in WA need to be changed.
My thoughts and prayers go to the hikers family.

JD338

 

[bwaites]

My thoughts and prayers go out to both families!

I hope that we can all take the same sense of forgiveness and humility that the Amish did after their schoolhouse shooting.

Bill

 

[LostInSpace278]

I know I'm late on this discussion. Here in Kentucky, Hunter's Education is required for anyone born after Jan 1, 1975? Not for certain on the year.

Also if the hunter is 16 years of age or younger he must be accompanied by an adult. That adult AT ALL TIMES must be within reaching distance of the weapon, in order to prevent such accidents from happening.
There have been many people ticketed and/or worse for not abiding by this simple rule.
At the time I thought it was a little overboard, being that I was a teenager and knew everything. I look back now, especially after reading this article and I digress. Can't say for certain how many lives this one rule has saved, but if it has saved any at all. It is well worth following.

 

[FAL Shot]

If hunting on public property, you had better move in at night and have your game spotted and take your shot at first light. After shooting your deer or whatever, wrap it in an orange piece of cloth so that somebody doesn't shoot it again as you are hauling it out. Any dogs you have with you had better be wearing orange as well.

For the past several years, I have only hunted during big game hunting season on private property. When I lived in northern Minnesota, hunters used to come up from the twin cities. One of them admitted to taking a "brush shot" one day. What is a brush shot, he was asked? "That's when the brush moves and you shoot into the brush", was his reply. Small wonder why some people get killed during hunting season.

Most people getting killed are in a wooded area, not open country. In brushy areas, people are always taking shots at game and missing, and somebody beyond their range of vision takes a hit. Shooting AT animals is not justified. You MUST have at least a 99.99% chance of hitting your target with certainty in a brushy area before you pull the trigger.

Funny, you NEVER hear of poachers getting shot accidently, as they never hunt around amateurs during open season.