Tacticle scope-rangefinder help

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Inukshuk, Dec 26, 2004.

  1. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Hi all

    Just found this forum and really nice to be here.
    I just purchased an IOR 4x14-50 Tacticle Illum.with the MP8 reticle and wanted to know if it would be a wast of money to get as well a Rangefinder binocular. I haven't recieved my scope yet. It's in the mail.
    Also I noticed that their were lazer rangefinders and non lazer. What is the differrance, benifit between the two.
    example: IOR Rangefinder and Bushnell Yardage Pro® Quest.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ehh, tough one here. buy your self a leica 900 or 1200 LRF scan and dont look back. if ya ever want to sell it for any reason youll get more resale value from her. even if ya dont think ya use it, its worth saying you got one!
     
  3. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    [ QUOTE ]
    ehh, tough one here. buy your self a leica 900 or 1200 LRF scan and dont look back. if ya ever want to sell it for any reason youll get more resale value from her. even if ya dont think ya use it, its worth saying you got one!

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Hi Jordan
    That's a lot of money to spend just to say I have it and maybe not use it. I don't mind the expense if the MP8 reticle can't do the job.
    As mentioned above can you or anybody tell me the real application differance between lazer and grid rangefinders?
     
  4. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    408
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Andre,

    Here's how I see it. I have an IOR 10X tactical with the MP-8 reticle. I was trained using mil-dots and have many years of practice using them and I am very good with them.

    Mil-dots are simple to use, but it takes many hours of practice just to get average with them. I'm not trying to discourage you, just stating the facts. Most folks can break them down into 1/2 and 1/4 increments which is average. To be really good, you need to be able to break them down into 1/8 and 1/10th increments.

    Now the MP-8 reticle helps with this process over the standard Mil-dot or even the 2nd gen mil-dot IMHO.

    Next you need to know your target size and understand the formula used for ranging which is pretty simple and straight forward. The formula can used for yards or meters.

    Your going to need to spend an extra $29.95 for a mil-dot master which is a must unless you're going to bring a calculator.

    I can use mil-dots if I have to, but like most here I cheat. I use a Leica 1200 LRF 98% of the time. If my batteries crap out then I use the MP-8 reticle.

    My advice purchase a Leica 1200 LRF. But, learn to use the MP-8 reticle. It's a lot of fun learning the ins and outs with it. This way if your Leica craps outs you can still range using your MP-8 reticle.

    If you need the mil-dot formula, send me an email.

    Best of luck and Happy Holidays to you.
     
  5. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Hi Jeff
    Thanks for your input.
    Here is a bit of my experience so far. For the last 14 years I have used a Leopold VX-III 2.5x8-36 shooting at 300-500- yards no problem, just using my eyes for distance calculation. Caribou and fox were pretty small at those distances though in my scope, but always got our target. I decided I wanted now after all this time to get a little more comfort, which is why I am here now and went and purchased the IOR 4x14-50 Tact. Illum. So I figured that it should improve or help me a lot better compared to what I have been used to.
    But now with a few more discoveries, I don't know if it would be overkill to go rangefinder because of my past experiance. Even with this I have discovered to kinds of range finders. The lazer and mildot recticle binoculars. So how do these two compare with each other I still have to do some research and will call the manufactures for more detail. I would like to add a binocular rangefinder just to have one for fun, but think it would be wiser to try out my new scope and get experiance with it first if I can resist.

    Here are the rangefinders that I have found so far of interest:
    http://www.newcon-optik.com/lrb7x40.shtml
    http://www.bushnell.com/products/rangefinder/specs/20-0836.html
    http://www.steiner-binoculars.com/binoculars/law/481.html
    http://www.valdada.com/vn/ior/01d

    Here are two completly differant methods.

    Please anyone give me comments, comparisons etc. on these along with your input regarding my above experiance to my present situation.

    Thanks

    Merry Xmas
     
  6. Shawn Carlock

    Shawn Carlock Sponsor

    Messages:
    1,901
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Andre,
    You may not be interested in ranges past 500-600 at this point in your long range hunting career, but not having a lazer range finder will only limit yourself at sometime. Grid reticules, mil-dots, etc are fast and work well for some holdovers. To learn to use your caliberated reticule the best, you should have a lazer to confirm your estimations anyway. I think that if you have the lazer you will find that with accurate range estimation you will greatly extend your distance. The problem I have found with mil-dots or cross hair caliberated reticules is when you need hold over for both windage and elevation. This condition will put your aiming point out in the "clear glass" with a difficult holding point. I much prefer to lazer, dial the elevation and hold the windage. If you get a lazer, get a good one. I had a newcon that shifted its point of aim and gave inaccurate readings, that is worse than not having one. I shelled out the big bucks for a Swarovski and could not be happier. For the distances you have mentioned there are many LRF's that will fill the bill at much less cost.
     
  7. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    From what I am seeing here it gives me the impression that I should have maybe gone for a simple Hunting scope with a lazer rangefinder than get a tacticle scope. Am I right or wrong?
     
  8. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    408
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    [ QUOTE ]
    From what I am seeing here it gives me the impression that I should have maybe gone for a simple Hunting scope with a lazer rangefinder than get a tacticle scope. Am I right or wrong?


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Andre,

    Not at all to your question. You've got a top of the line scope with a fantastic reticle for ranging. Like I said, buy a mil-dot master and learn how to range with the MP-8 reticle. It's not hard, it's fun, but it takes a lot of practice.

    Like Shawn said and I suggested, purchase a Leica 1200 LRF. This way you can confirm your readings as you're learning to use your MP-8. Stay clear of the Newcon LRF. Lieca's seem to be the best going and I'm very happy with mine.

    I find it easier to use my LRF than using mil-dots and it's much faster and more accurate. The problem with ranging animals with mil-dots is, most won't stand still or give you the profile you need for accurate range estimation.

    Don't give up, give in or second guess yourself on your scope. You've got a great scope with one of the best reticles designed. Learn to use the MP-8 and work at it. It really is fun and rewarding.

    You don't need the ranging Bino's. You're back to the same process with using your scope. You'll have to learn to use their system and calculations. If you need good bino's buy one without the ranging reticle. I had the ranging reticle taken out of my Zeiss EDF bino's.

    The great thing about the Lieca LRF is they have great glass for viewing.

    Best of luck!
     
  9. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Hi Andre, the differencebetween ranging with areticle,in eithera scope, binoculars or spotting scope compared to a lazerrangefinder is like comparing snail mail to email.
    the lazeris more accurate and is faster. i wouldn't be without a lazer range finder. Now having said that,it is a good idea to always have a back up, thats where the beauty of a reticle designed for ranging comes into its own, when your batteries run out on the LRF you still have the ability to range with the reticle,thats why you should practice ranginmg with the reticle and verify with the lazer as often as possible. now the ranging reticles are in most cases (certainly that of the mildot) are designed for ranging the human torsoe, which tends to be 1m in length(as most of the height difference in a human is due to the length of thier legs), you misjudge the range slightly and you are still ginna hit centre mass and cripple the enemy, different game altogetherif you are hunting lets say deer or wild hogs,herewe are aiming for the vital zone, some times refered to as boilerroom, its about the size of a small paper plate, maybe 6 to 8 inches across, misjudge the range here and you have a miss, or even worse a wounded animal. Deer tend to vary greatly in length and depth, this can screw up your ranging calculations quite a bit when using a reticle, as you rely on a constant,or x factor, that bieng the size of the target (deer/pig) you are ranging, is this target 25% larger or smaller your calculations areall to pot.
    Buy the Leica 1200 Scan. or if you haven't any bino's yet buy the leica geovid, 10x40 or 8x40 combined bino/LRF. The Steiner bino's are of excellent quality, tough as old boots, superb glass, excellent customer service, but the 10 miliradian reticle is more for ranging for artillery and air strikes than it is for deer, the 10 miliradian is to big for ranging deer, you need 1 miliradian (which is what the mildot is based on.
    hope i have helped you mate.. Pete
     
  10. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Thanks all for your input. It has helped a lot. Now I am down to one thing a lazer rangefinder. I know on this thread everyone has suggested the Leica 1200 Scan. I also heard good revue's regarding the Bushnell Yardage Pro® Quest. Comments and comparisons please regarding these two.
     
  11. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    I haven't used the Bushnell but from its specs the laser doesn't look powerful enough for me (rated to measure a deer up to 450 yds). I've got a Newcon LRB 7X50 that will measure a broadside deer to over 1000 yds. I'll be giving the LRB 7X40's a try soon as the 7X50's are a bit big and heavy for me. I'm hoping the 7X40's will range close to as well in a smaller package. The Burris version (re-badged Newcon) has gotten a pretty good review here:

    http://www.wildcatshooting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1042

    If you aren't stuck on having binocs the Leica 1200 has been well proven by many and I'd expect it to do better than the Bushnell binocs if Bushnell's specs are accurate. Of course if you're made of money there's always the Geovid. Can't go wrong there.
     
  12. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    408
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Andre,

    This has been one topic that has been talked about many many many times on many shooting and hunting boards. In the end, it almost always comes down to the Lieca 1200 LRF out performing all the others. Dollar for dollar, most find it's the best bang for their buck.
     
  13. Inukshuk

    Inukshuk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    219
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    [ QUOTE ]
    Andre,

    This has been one topic that has been talked about many many many times on many shooting and hunting boards. In the end, it almost always comes down to the Lieca 1200 LRF out performing all the others. Dollar for dollar, most find it's the best bang for their buck.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hi Jeff

    The way it's going it will probably end up as you've mentioned. At the moment I am still researching especially since it's not that much of a rush. I'll have to at least wait for my new scope to try first.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif