SDPlinker
Well-Known Member
It should give you some information for a small cost, and if you have or purchase a AR it will come in handy.
Subsonic .223
- Thread starter gunner1stclass
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
marksman1941
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2013
- Messages
- 696
You're right. I should have done some math before making a guess. A 223 case has 1.87 cc of capacity. Trailboss weighs 4.9gr per cc. So a maximum of 9.163 if filled to the case mouth. 2.8 / 9.163 = 30.5% case full
Tom264
Well-Known Member
Bet that can is loading up with crud.
Beck Ammunition has some .223 subsonic options.
gunner1stclass
Active Member
Surprisingly, it doesn't seem too bad
gunner1stclass
Active Member
Thanks for the information
The ammo they have looks good, but it's kind of pricey. I just want something I can shoot on a daily basis to keep in practice Prairie dog season is coming soon.
Toecutter
Well-Known Member
Not sure this is helpful for your situation, but i did some roundball loads years ago that were pretty quiet and darn accurate at 25yds (never pursued at distance.
If i remember correctly i lucked into the rt load early. Only loaded up 3 loads at first: 3.0, 3.3, and 3.6 gr of red dot. 3.0 and 3.6 were a shotgun pattern. 3.3 was exactly what i was looking for.
I believe this was an ar with the gas system shut off.
Fun little experiment.
Good luck!
If i remember correctly i lucked into the rt load early. Only loaded up 3 loads at first: 3.0, 3.3, and 3.6 gr of red dot. 3.0 and 3.6 were a shotgun pattern. 3.3 was exactly what i was looking for.
I believe this was an ar with the gas system shut off.
Fun little experiment.
Good luck!
I build subsonic loads for lots of different cartridges. Trail Boss is my go to powder. Before Trail boss used all the typical old style ways to build SubS loads. Since Trail Boss, there is no reason to incur the risk of using pistol or shotgun powders to build SubS loads. I have never had a cartridge that I could not get under an inch at 100 yards with jacketed bullets and under 2" with cast. First step, crimp the loads if shooting cast, do not use gas checks, size your lead to .002 over normal in smaller calibres, as much as.005 over for larger, so for .224, size to .226 then try .227. Next major consideration, use flat nose bullets with wide metplat, much better killing effect. Round balls also work great and have the advantage they lose velocity very quickly so much less carry if using on tree squirrels etc. When tuning a load increase or decrease TB powder charge by .1 grains, you will be suprised how little it takes to really shrink groups or open them up.
In the 22 Hornet, I have loaded 900 FPS with 50 grain Honrady Spire point, under an inch at 100, in the 223, 880 FPS using 70 grain Sierra, under 1" at 100, in the 375 Ruger, 950 FPS us .378 260 grain cast, 1.5 inches at 100. All using Trail Boss powder and this is just a few. Have made cast loads even for the 460 Bee using 410 grain cast at 990 FPS. They shot just over an inch at 100.
308 Round Ball Grouse and Squirrel loads, 900 FPS. These round balls are .312 diameter. The loads I tried with .310 round ball, the groups were three times this size. You want the lead to seal the bore and get a real good bite on the rifling for best accuracy.
Round ball groups at 25 yards. Both are 5 shot groups, one on the left is .1 grains more than the 5 shot group on the right.
In the 22 Hornet, I have loaded 900 FPS with 50 grain Honrady Spire point, under an inch at 100, in the 223, 880 FPS using 70 grain Sierra, under 1" at 100, in the 375 Ruger, 950 FPS us .378 260 grain cast, 1.5 inches at 100. All using Trail Boss powder and this is just a few. Have made cast loads even for the 460 Bee using 410 grain cast at 990 FPS. They shot just over an inch at 100.
308 Round Ball Grouse and Squirrel loads, 900 FPS. These round balls are .312 diameter. The loads I tried with .310 round ball, the groups were three times this size. You want the lead to seal the bore and get a real good bite on the rifling for best accuracy.
Round ball groups at 25 yards. Both are 5 shot groups, one on the left is .1 grains more than the 5 shot group on the right.
Last edited:
cohunt
Well-Known Member
Have you tried different powder charge weights?
Ok I'll ask what about changing cartridges to the 221 fireball to reduce case capacity and probably improve sd and accuracy, if all you want to shoot is subsonic?
del2les
Well-Known Member
In my and many others' experiences, cast bullets perform better when 0.001-0.002" larger than bore size (mine run 0.225" heat treated wheel weights-"hard" cast), and for best performance, one needs to slug their bore to find actual size. We assume most mfg have their 223 bore size close to .224", but sometimes, that is not the case.
Sometimes with cast rifle bullets, a slightly larger case neck ID helps to reduce bullet damage and reduce groups, but that depends on your current sizer and tension. When seating cast bullets, make sure the neck is properly chamfered and mouth slightly belled before seating.
As for powders, Trail Boss is great, but for many years, I used various powders like Red Dot, Unique, 231, 452AA, etc, etc. Extra care is always required when using fast powders
comfisherman
Well-Known Member
Haven't done much cast but have extensively worked with trail boss to make reduced loads to get my wife serviceable practice loads for bear protection rifles. Not practical to have her getting familiar with rifle functions with full beans loads on light weight big bore rifles.
My thoughts.
Every load that worked well was between 75 and 95% case fill.
Seems to like the heaviest bullet that can be stabilized with the twist at the reduced velocity works best.
Never had much luck under 30 cal with any real accuracy, so might not be the greatest guidance.
Always used a mag primer, seems counter intuitive but I swear it gave better more consistent loads, wouldn't die on the hill defending the anecdotal evidence but seemed to help.
My thoughts.
Every load that worked well was between 75 and 95% case fill.
Seems to like the heaviest bullet that can be stabilized with the twist at the reduced velocity works best.
Never had much luck under 30 cal with any real accuracy, so might not be the greatest guidance.
Always used a mag primer, seems counter intuitive but I swear it gave better more consistent loads, wouldn't die on the hill defending the anecdotal evidence but seemed to help.
