Shooting Apps why aren't they more accrete?

[RockyRandy]

So am I the only guy that can't seem to get a shooting app to come out accurately with the different ranges? I totally get the garbage in and garbage out theory as to how to set it up. But when you input all your data, (Bullet, Velocity, bc, ect. ect. ect.) and it works pretty good for some loads and then just garbage for other loads it just leaves me scratching my head as to why. I have my own range on my farm and it runs from 400 yards out to 1355 yards so im able to collect my DOPE, (Distant-Of-Previous-Engagement.) I have all the lastest gadgets there is (lab Radar, Kestral, Range finders galore.) and yet one load will come out really accurate and another doesn't. I have played with velocity up and down but with no luck.
Please chime in and give me your thoughts

 

[Huntsman66]

Are you using your Kestrel or one of the free phone apps?

 

[Mrvmax]

I can't say I've had the issues you are but I probably don't shoot as often as you an I csn only go out to 1000. Strelok Pro and Mil-Dot ballistics have worked well for me with 6mmARC, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 PRC out to 1000. I usually start at 100 then to 200, 500, 700 then 1000.

 

[bultinkle]

I've been pretty impressed with my kestrel as long as my velocity is good and I'm using an applied ballistics bc model.

Factory reported bc from some companies is another story.

 

[Doom2]

You really haven't given much to work off of. There are any number of possibilities ranging from the terrain that the bullet traverses to to the ballistic coefficient to data entry errors.

It would help to know cartridge, bullet, location, range where things fall apart, scope, G7 vs G1.

 

[Huntsman66]

I've been pretty impressed with my kestrel as long as my velocity is good and I'm using an applied ballistics bc model.

Factory reported bc from some companies is another story.

Yeah I have an idea he has a kestrel weather meter without the applied Ballistics program.. we will have to wait for him to tell us more. But the free app's definitely have their limitations, and I can see why he is frustrated…. Im gonna bet that with a Kestrel with app bal, he would fix all of his issues….

 

[Plinker147]

I've experienced same. I always confirm on range. I never put my trust in an app. Lots of variables that can change in real shooting compared to apps. To me apps are like reloading manuals, they provide a good starting place and Get you close, the rest should be confirmed at the range.

I think bullet BC vary slightly gun to gun so that can throw things off. I don't have a chrono so I build my dopes by shooting 600, 800, 1000 then plug in MOA drops to get velocity. Then later when I've had access to chrono the muzzle velocities often don't match what I plugged in to match my real Drops. Can't say exact why but the change in BC seems logical to me.

 

[Justice1327]

In Litz's new book he explains why getting BC/drop data from targets isn't a viable solution. Interesting read and something to think about.

 

[RockyRandy]

Are you using your Kestrel or one of the free phone apps?

all of the above

 

[RockyRandy]

Sorry guys I've out cleaning the shed. These are the apps I'm using. I'm using the kestrel 5700. I need to run down to my office and get all my info that I'm have been using and I will get back on and post the nitty gridy of info

 

[436]

I've experienced same. I always confirm on range. I never put my trust in an app. Lots of variables that can change in real shooting compared to apps. To me apps are like reloading manuals, they provide a good starting place and Get you close, the rest should be confirmed at the range.

I think bullet BC vary slightly gun to gun so that can throw things off. I don't have a chrono so I build my dopes by shooting 600, 800, 1000 then plug in MOA drops to get velocity. Then later when I've had access to chrono the muzzle velocities often don't match what I plugged in to match my real Drops. Can't say exact why but the change in BC seems logical to me.

I think you have something there, BC performance and flight characteristics from rifle to rifle do have a lot to do with it. If it changes any part of the BC, well it would seem everything else would be off as well. This means you'd really have to have the true BC from the load and rifle you are testing or something like that. Just my 0.2 Cheers

 

[The Oregonian]

I shoot with a Labradar and I always validate my drops and true my velocity to actual results.

 

[dfanonymous]

I speak plainly here.

If you suck, it doesn't matter what data you collect. I'm not saying anyone in particular is a bad shooter, but in real life in my experience; when people meet up for shoots, competition, etc face to face….people aren't as good as they seem on the internet. There's more to it than being able to get a tight group every once in a while at 100y. We can roll this all up into a singular category: fundementals.

Secondly, people get lost in the numbers. Numbers matter, but how they matter and to what degree has a little more nuisance, which in my opinion, can be better unearthed reading Bryan Litz's applied ballistics series if you have no formal training. Or even for those that do.

That said if one insist on running BC's over custom curves for instances, you need a few profiles for various ranges at a minimum. This is the correct way to do it. The closer to subsonic you get, the more drastic changes in your data, the more you will need to verify bullet stability, and the more trued the data will usually need to be.

Lastly, as Frank Galli from snipershide says, "The bullet doesn't lie, believe the bullet." Doesn't matter if you have a $600 labradar. If you're .3 mils high, you're .3 mils high. Going back to my first point, that's assuming you don't suck, and it's a reproducible shot, day to day, week to week. In the example of being .3 mils high, you true to that. Depending what range is in question, if you supersonic, you'll want to true velocity first a foremost. Transonic, and subsonic will be more (not exclusively) BC dependent, and going back to my previous point, will require more profiles if using a BC over a CDM specific to that bullet.

 

[Quicksilver338]

I have found faults with all the phone apps I've used. Hornady 4dof seemed to get me the closest as it actually changed elevation POI with wind direction, so that was nice to see. As soon as I went to a kestrel with AB it's amazing how accurate my downrange impacts became. Now this isn't an easy button, I still have to true up every rifle individually downrange. Once that happens the kestrel has never been wrong for elevation, just windage (which is me).

What you're dealing with reminds me of other guys I see. 13 apps and trying all of them instead of trying to perfect one. Like stated before just talking plainly here and no attacks toward anyone. Fundamentals and learning are your best friend. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but better than average. It's taken years to get there though. Don't get frustrated when you go out once and can't true your rifle up. It's taken me dozens of trips with consistent results for me to trust my dope in my rifle. The bullet doesn't lie, true to the bullet. Then go out another day and try and repeat the results. Keep tuning it in, and if at all possible shoot in zero wind for trueing. I'll be up at 4am some days just to catch that 30-60 minute window where conditions are prime for testing. Stay vigilante!