shooting a group help...

[Bigeclipse]

I know this may be better off in the reloading section but it also has to do with shooting in general. My question is...when you all are working up loads and checking for best group what is your technique. Lets pretend it is a medium to lighter weight barrel so it will heat up. Do you shoot your group 3-5 shots pretty quick in a string or do you shoot one shot, then wait a certain time for barrel to cool a bit then shoot...etc until all shots fired. I am not too concerned about being able to shoot 5+ shots in quick succession on a game animal...mostly concerned about being able to shoot 2-3 times as accurate as possible out to 400 yards. So what are your thoughts for me finding the best hand load for my gun? Shoot 3-5 shot string relatively quick or shoot one shot at a time then let barrel cool each time?

 

[cohunter14]

I would let the barrel cool for a couple of minutes in between each shot. If you keep it consistant, the barrel temp should be consistant as well as your shot pattern. I would always try to avoid shooting with a hot barrel, unless it is hunting and you need quick follow up shots.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I would let the barrel cool for a couple of minutes in between each shot. If you keep it consistant, the barrel temp should be consistant as well as your shot pattern. I would always try to avoid shooting with a hot barrel, unless it is hunting and you need quick follow up shots.

My current barrel is pretty thin as it is a mountain rifle so I was thinking that, just curious what most people do. Thank you for your comments!

 

[gohring3006]

My most accurate load is always the most accurate when I shoot both ways the groups may be a little tighter letting it cool but it still will be the best in development during a work up if cold or hot. I think its whatever you prefer I shoot three fairly quick then let it cool for about 10min.

 

[Rick Richard]

I shoot 3 with several minutes between. I like to take particular note on the first since it is the cold bore shot and the one most representative of the shot out in the field.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I shoot usually at 3 minutes apart. However, if it's a warm/hot day I monitor the barrel temp closely and have even gone to every 5 minutes.

 

[kcebcj]

I have my own range 100 yard with a chrono 200, 335. 460 and 800 yard also off the bench. I have always noticed a velocity difference between a cold first shot barrel and the second , third and have never been able to solve that problem but have got them close. The second two shots are usually faster. I'm starting to think when the rifle sits over night the residue in the barrel changes some and slows that first shot down or the heat generated by the first shot expands the barrel and there is less drag. "Go figure".

I do my initial work up at 200 yards. At this range the point of impact from cold bore to warm bore is so minimal you can't see it...most of the time. I give it 10 minutes between shoots and keep that consistent.

But the final test I do a five shot group at 460 yards with a cold barrel and the rifle sitting over night between shots. This tells me how consistent the rifle is with a cold bore. I want the group 1 MOA or better. Then if that is good I shoot a 3 shot group rapid fire at the same range and see if the two follow up shots are good and generally by the time I get to this point they are right there.

I also use the cold bore velocities to first set up the ballistic program and surprisingly they are very close to the proven velocity. Ced M2 chronograph.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Heya... Everyone probably finds a technique that works for their particular situation. For what you describe, I think working up your loads as suggested above is a good idea... letting the barrel cool between shots. I'd try to get the most accurate load I could this way.

However, It sounds like you are going to be using this for hunting... So first shot placement is going to be paramount to success in the field. Cold bore shot... First shot of the day would be what I'd look for in terms of dialing in your gun. It's important that your first shot goes exactly where you want it to. If you are using temp stable powder, like hodgdon extreme powders, then once you get that first shot dialed in, it should remain fairly consistent.

Now... For the second portion of your setup... If you are going to follow up with a couple of quick shots after your first, do it. Keep data on what your bullets tend to do at different ranges. Each gun reacts differently to the barrel heating up. Figure out yours... Then just compensate for this.

You might find that there are minimal differences between your first shot and several consecutive follow-up shots and strangely enough.. Sometimes none at all. But most of us aren't that lucky. As range increases, barrel heat can move your point of impact enough to warrant compensating for it.

Good luck... And I'm confident that you'll find a method that works for you.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Heya... Everyone probably finds a technique that works for their particular situation. For what you describe, I think working up your loads as suggested above is a good idea... letting the barrel cool between shots. I'd try to get the most accurate load I could this way.

However, It sounds like you are going to be using this for hunting... So first shot placement is going to be paramount to success in the field. Cold bore shot... First shot of the day would be what I'd look for in terms of dialing in your gun. It's important that your first shot goes exactly where you want it to. If you are using temp stable powder, like hodgdon extreme powders, then once you get that first shot dialed in, it should remain fairly consistent.

Now... For the second portion of your setup... If you are going to follow up with a couple of quick shots after your first, do it. Keep data on what your bullets tend to do at different ranges. Each gun reacts differently to the barrel heating up. Figure out yours... Then just compensate for this.

You might find that there are minimal differences between your first shot and several consecutive follow-up shots and strangely enough.. Sometimes none at all. But most of us aren't that lucky. As range increases, barrel heat can move your point of impact enough to warrant compensating for it.

Good luck... And I'm confident that you'll find a method that works for you.

Thanks for the input. The current best load I have for this rifle is sitting just under 1 MOA, which is fine since I will not shoot past 400 with it...actually most likely wont even go past 300. You are right about barrel heat. My first shot will always hit 1 inch above the bullseye at 100 yards. If I do a quick follow up 2nd and 3rd shot, they always are about just under 1 inch low and a half inch right of that first shot and they are usually touching each other. so the 2nd and 3rd shot are actually like .25MOA from each other but about .9MOA from the first shot. I have only shot 3 groups of this load but this is what has happened every time.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Sweet... Have you attempted the dollar bill test? ... Where you run a dollar bill or better yet, a pliable business card under the full length of the barrel to see if the stock is making contact with it?

If it is... Sometimes widening/deepening your stocks barrel channel with an appropriately sized dowel and sandpaper will resolve some of these stringing issues, especially when the shots are moving left or right.

Glad to hear you are finding consistency because with that, comes predictability, which is what shooting is all about, if we can manage it!

Good luck and best wishes to you. Hope you you hit whatever falls between your sights this year.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Sweet... Have you attempted the dollar bill test? ... Where you run a dollar bill or better yet, a pliable business card under the full length of the barrel to see if the stock is making contact with it?

If it is... Sometimes widening/deepening your stocks barrel channel with an appropriately sized dowel and sandpaper will resolve some of these stringing issues, especially when the shots are moving left or right.

Glad to hear you are finding consistency because with that, comes predictability, which is what shooting is all about, if we can manage it!

Good luck and best wishes to you. Hope you you hit whatever falls between your sights this year.

I know a dollar bill fits (that was the first thing I did when I got the rifle) but not sure about a business card. I will check that when I get home.

 

[4xforfun]

First things first.

With a COLD FOWLED BORE....shoot a long string fairly quickly. Get it HOT. Now,did the shots string on you? Heat induced stress will move the shots in ONE direction. This could be in any direction. If you are getting heat induced stress, you will see it on target. Now, there is also heat induced velocity rise. As your tube heats it swells...which means that the bore will restrict ever so slightly. This will cause higher PSI and , thusly, velocity rise. If your shots string upward, it COULD be caused by either stress or swelling. EVERY tube will show a slight increase in velocity if they get hot enough. It can raise the speed up enough to change your tune. That is why we 600/1000 yard target shooters tune our loads to a HOT BBL...that is one of the reasons we shoot more sighters than we usually need...we need to get the tube HOT to be in our tuning window.


So, use a chrono if at all possible. This will tell you how much you gain in velosity as the tube warms up. If you find that you do not have any heat induced stress and your speed doesn't go crazy, I say let fly with your groups and take advantage of the conditions. Shoot a couple of groups with a cool bore (IE...fire a few warm up shots and then shoot groups waiting a couple minutes between shots) and shoot a couple with a hot bore. Compair them...see if the groups open, close, or stay the same.

There are two different things that I look for in a hunting gun...and they have NOTHING to do with each other. One is how it groups...this has to be done with a warm or hot bbl. The other is first shot, cold bore shot placement. Will the gun ALWAYS put that first cold bore shot in the same place. To do this test it takes HOURS to shoot a few shots. And, I like to make this test when the temps are at HUNTING temps. The tube needs to cool COMPLEATLY!!! Here in ND I test the first shot repeatability just before season..when it is COLD out. But, like I said, groups and first shot placement have nothing to do with each other as far as testing. You may well have a rifle that HOLDS POI and the cold/ hot things are the same. My advice....

NEVER SELL IT!! (If you do, give me first crack at it!!)

Good luck and have fun,
Tod

 

[86alaskan]

for my hunting rifles, I like to get a good dope using cold bore to verify. then, once everything is in tune, I practice hunting groups by cycling a full mag in less than 30secs. thats only 4 shots, but in my 338 its pretty darn hot after the 3rd. I see it like this, the first may be all that is necessary, but here in AK, big brownie may need 3-4 accurate shots in short order to seal the deal. right now, my 338 will do .75 groups slow and cold, then about 1.25 shooting fast. thats real world animal has to go down accuracy and thats what matters the most to me.

 

[zfastmalibu]

If you have a factory barrel it will have stress. In that case let it cool. If you have a good barrel then it will have been stress relieved and you should be able to shoot your groups without letting it cool.