Thanks for the information. I use the Berger ladder on Bergers all the time. I had wondered if it might work on the ELD-X, because it seems to have a similar aggressive ogive, but the AMaxes were so oddball in their preferences that I didn't want to just assume.
Seating Depth Range for ELD-X
- Thread starter IdahoNP
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If anyone cares, the Berger ladder seems to apply well to the ELD-X.
I altered it, because I don't want to buy bottom metal unless I have to. I started at "barely feeding in the mag" length. So this is the result of my ladder. Keep in mind that I had extra high rings (my lows won't be here until sometime this week), so my cheek weld was poor. There might have been a lot more accuracy available than I could utilize.
Savage-Criterion .300 Win Mag 26" 1:10 Varmint contour
Hornady ELD-X 212 gr
Hornady Brass
CCI 250
H1000 71.0gr (very mild load) 2675 fps SD 12fps
0.080 off lands 1.35 MOA
0.120 off lands 0.26 MOA
0.160 off lands 0.5 MOA (0.19 MOA if I don't count my called flyer- I'll load some more at that depth and see)
0.200 off lands 1.45 MOA
They aren't depth-insensitive after all, at least in my rifle, bu they might have a wider sweet spot than the Bergers. I will keep playing with them, and see what more I can squeeze out of them, once my low rings are here.
Thanks again everyone. You all rock!
I altered it, because I don't want to buy bottom metal unless I have to. I started at "barely feeding in the mag" length. So this is the result of my ladder. Keep in mind that I had extra high rings (my lows won't be here until sometime this week), so my cheek weld was poor. There might have been a lot more accuracy available than I could utilize.
Savage-Criterion .300 Win Mag 26" 1:10 Varmint contour
Hornady ELD-X 212 gr
Hornady Brass
CCI 250
H1000 71.0gr (very mild load) 2675 fps SD 12fps
0.080 off lands 1.35 MOA
0.120 off lands 0.26 MOA
0.160 off lands 0.5 MOA (0.19 MOA if I don't count my called flyer- I'll load some more at that depth and see)
0.200 off lands 1.45 MOA
They aren't depth-insensitive after all, at least in my rifle, bu they might have a wider sweet spot than the Bergers. I will keep playing with them, and see what more I can squeeze out of them, once my low rings are here.
Thanks again everyone. You all rock!
philsummers21
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2009
- Messages
- 284
What was your load. Starting to do my 30-378 now with the 212s and h1000
Litehiker
Well-Known Member
I have a Ruger American Predator and a Ruger Precision Rifle, both in 6.5 CM. And both rifles like 140 gr.ELD-M factory ammo.
The RAP likes ELD-X just a well, with 1/2" groups being common. I do believe they are match grade hunting bullets. And thankfully Ruger seems to have found how to make inexpensive rifles accurate.
Since I live in the Las Vegas valley and my garage is now an oven I can't reload there so that will wait until October. But I just got a new RCBS turret press and 6.5 CM competition dies so I'm ready. I'll use my old Ohaus balance beam scale until I decide on which electronic scale is the most accurate.
The Ruger Precision Rifle that I use for competitions has MAGPUL magazines, which I prefer to metal mags. I've filed a wide, shallow groove in them on the inside front, where my bullets may need a bit more space. So far they function well.
When I need a new barrel I'll have Bartlein make the chamber and throat to minimum SAAMI specs. Shorter throat = no need to seat bullets way out.
Eric B.
The RAP likes ELD-X just a well, with 1/2" groups being common. I do believe they are match grade hunting bullets. And thankfully Ruger seems to have found how to make inexpensive rifles accurate.
Since I live in the Las Vegas valley and my garage is now an oven I can't reload there so that will wait until October. But I just got a new RCBS turret press and 6.5 CM competition dies so I'm ready. I'll use my old Ohaus balance beam scale until I decide on which electronic scale is the most accurate.
The Ruger Precision Rifle that I use for competitions has MAGPUL magazines, which I prefer to metal mags. I've filed a wide, shallow groove in them on the inside front, where my bullets may need a bit more space. So far they function well.
When I need a new barrel I'll have Bartlein make the chamber and throat to minimum SAAMI specs. Shorter throat = no need to seat bullets way out.
Eric B.
Longshotjames
Well-Known Member
Litehiker,
You are correct about your shallow throat depth = short seating length.
However if you are shooting long range we want the higher BC bullets and they are longer, which means you have to seat them deeper taking up case capacity. The 6.5cm is a great cartidrige but it is not exactly overflowing with large case capacity. I would want Bartlien to give it a long throat so I could seat them as far out as possible with heavy for caliber, high BC bullets to allow me as much room as possible for powder.
Its something to think about if your ever getting a custom barrel
James
You are correct about your shallow throat depth = short seating length.
However if you are shooting long range we want the higher BC bullets and they are longer, which means you have to seat them deeper taking up case capacity. The 6.5cm is a great cartidrige but it is not exactly overflowing with large case capacity. I would want Bartlien to give it a long throat so I could seat them as far out as possible with heavy for caliber, high BC bullets to allow me as much room as possible for powder.
Its something to think about if your ever getting a custom barrel
James
Litehiker
Well-Known Member
"Longshot", I remember that handle from an Army sniper I sent freeze-dried food to when he was in Iraq several years ago. He has requested it at the Backpacking Light website. That wouldn't be you would it?
Anyway, If I go above 140 gr. 6.4 bullets I'll need a faster twist like 1:7.7 or 1:7.5. That means less velocity and more trajectory.
So I'll stick with 1:8 twist and 143 ELD-X bullets as my max weight.
In my RPR I'm easily hitting at 1,000 yards in competitions when I do my part. I can see stretching it to 1,200 yds. but then even 140 gr. bullets begin to go transonic. Heavier bullets would carry supersonic further but at a fatter trajectory. Like all ballistics it's a trade-off.
Eric B.
Anyway, If I go above 140 gr. 6.4 bullets I'll need a faster twist like 1:7.7 or 1:7.5. That means less velocity and more trajectory.
So I'll stick with 1:8 twist and 143 ELD-X bullets as my max weight.
In my RPR I'm easily hitting at 1,000 yards in competitions when I do my part. I can see stretching it to 1,200 yds. but then even 140 gr. bullets begin to go transonic. Heavier bullets would carry supersonic further but at a fatter trajectory. Like all ballistics it's a trade-off.
Eric B.
For what it is worth, here is my final load on the ELD-X
Savage Action
Criterion 26" Varmint contour
.300 Winchester Magnum
Timney Trigger (2#)
NSS Precision Ground Heavy Duty Recoil Lug
NSS Squared and Trued Barrel Nut
Original Savage composite stock, inletted, stiffened, and glass-bedded
Bullet: Hornady ELD-X 212gr
Brass: Hornady
Primer: CCI 250
Powder: H1000
Charge: 75.1gr H1000
Seating depth: 0.120 off lands
Velocity: 2785fps
SD: 2.38
Extreme Spread: 5 fps
Best group (5 shots) 0.103 at 100 yrds
I got lucky on this rifle/workup. I didn't put nearly enough work in to justify how well it shoots, especially the SD and Extreme spread.
They seem to have a wide sweet spot. On powder ladder, I had a 10fps change from 74.5-75.0 grains, and 1 fps change from 75.0-75.1 gr.
Their trimming and tipping QC is excellent. I was OCD and also measured COAL from the tip, rather than only using the Hornady Comperator. Out of 60 loaded, I had two that were 0.010 longer than the average, but almost all of them were +/- 0.002 (many were +/- 0.001).
Those are some ridiculously consistent meplats. I hope Hornady can keep the quality control that tight on subsequent lots.
Happy shooting!
[edit] One final note. I use the Redding VLD seating micrometer. This bullet can stick in that stem. I've had it pull the bullet completely back out of the brass a couple times, but more often it pulls the bullet .010-.030ish back out after seating. Not often, but it happens. Double check your lengths if you use one on this bullet.
Savage Action
Criterion 26" Varmint contour
.300 Winchester Magnum
Timney Trigger (2#)
NSS Precision Ground Heavy Duty Recoil Lug
NSS Squared and Trued Barrel Nut
Original Savage composite stock, inletted, stiffened, and glass-bedded
Bullet: Hornady ELD-X 212gr
Brass: Hornady
Primer: CCI 250
Powder: H1000
Charge: 75.1gr H1000
Seating depth: 0.120 off lands
Velocity: 2785fps
SD: 2.38
Extreme Spread: 5 fps
Best group (5 shots) 0.103 at 100 yrds
I got lucky on this rifle/workup. I didn't put nearly enough work in to justify how well it shoots, especially the SD and Extreme spread.
They seem to have a wide sweet spot. On powder ladder, I had a 10fps change from 74.5-75.0 grains, and 1 fps change from 75.0-75.1 gr.
Their trimming and tipping QC is excellent. I was OCD and also measured COAL from the tip, rather than only using the Hornady Comperator. Out of 60 loaded, I had two that were 0.010 longer than the average, but almost all of them were +/- 0.002 (many were +/- 0.001).
Those are some ridiculously consistent meplats. I hope Hornady can keep the quality control that tight on subsequent lots.
Happy shooting!
[edit] One final note. I use the Redding VLD seating micrometer. This bullet can stick in that stem. I've had it pull the bullet completely back out of the brass a couple times, but more often it pulls the bullet .010-.030ish back out after seating. Not often, but it happens. Double check your lengths if you use one on this bullet.
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brant89
Well-Known Member
I was struggling to get good groups with my new Savage build with the 200gr ELD-X when I came across this thread. So I ran the Berger OAL test. Results below at 100yds off a bipod and rear bag.
Norma brass
Hornady 200gr ELD-X
CCI 250 Magnum Large Rifle primers
76.5gr Hodgdon H1000
2.840 (.075 from lands) - 1.405"
2.800 (.115 from lands) - 0.421"
2.760 (.155 from lands) - 1.064"
2.720 (.195 from lands) - 0.859"
2.680 (.235 from lands) - 1.075"
Rifle specs:
Savage 116 action, trued by Pierce Engineering
Bolt fluted by Pierce Engineering
PTG magnum bolt head
Criterion 26" LV contour, 300WM Match chamber
Holland Radial Baffle QD brake, installed by Pierce Engineering
NSS Precision Ground Recoil Lug
NSS Precision Barrel Nut
SSS Tactical Bolt Handle
HS Precision M24 stock, tan w/ black web
Karsten cheek rest
Badger Ordnance scope base
Vortex Precision Matched rings
Vortex Viper HS-LR 4-16X50 FFP
Hopefully this helps anyone else is playing with these in 300WM.
Norma brass
Hornady 200gr ELD-X
CCI 250 Magnum Large Rifle primers
76.5gr Hodgdon H1000
2.840 (.075 from lands) - 1.405"
2.800 (.115 from lands) - 0.421"
2.760 (.155 from lands) - 1.064"
2.720 (.195 from lands) - 0.859"
2.680 (.235 from lands) - 1.075"
Rifle specs:
Savage 116 action, trued by Pierce Engineering
Bolt fluted by Pierce Engineering
PTG magnum bolt head
Criterion 26" LV contour, 300WM Match chamber
Holland Radial Baffle QD brake, installed by Pierce Engineering
NSS Precision Ground Recoil Lug
NSS Precision Barrel Nut
SSS Tactical Bolt Handle
HS Precision M24 stock, tan w/ black web
Karsten cheek rest
Badger Ordnance scope base
Vortex Precision Matched rings
Vortex Viper HS-LR 4-16X50 FFP
Hopefully this helps anyone else is playing with these in 300WM.
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