Seating depth limitations

[Csafisher]

how far are you planning on shooting?

 

[Mikecr]

Yup. If I load them to the lands, they're too long to fit in the magazine.

I never understood how folks came to assume they have to reach the lands. Or, why they expend so much effort trying to define land relationships.

Unless shooting an underbore, reliant on high starting pressure, there is no reason to consider other than what tests as best. Then, actual land relationship in this means nothing whatsoever. Doesn't matter a bit.
Just do full seating testing, measure & log your best CBTO, and don't ever mess with it again with that bullet & barrel.

It's similar to primers. Do you burnout a brain lobe about why one primer works better for your load than the others? No..
You test to find the best, log it, and never mess with it again.
These things are really that simple.

If you discover your magazine gets in the way,, or the bullet you chose will be seated too deep,, then you've also discovered that your planning sucks so far.
Another simple matter.

 

[Wolf76]

I ran into a similar problem with a 300wsm/browning. Shot many magazine length loads with no acceptable accuracy 1-1.5 moa. Finally loaded close to the lands and boom,.5moa or better.
Solution: load long bullets and mark them with a sharpie. They get loaded directly in the chamber.
Load magazine with bullets that fit. They are follow up shots anyway. They are accurate enough for this role.

 

[Cole S]

I never understood how folks came to assume they have to reach the lands. Or, why they expend so much effort trying to define land relationships.

Unless shooting an underbore, reliant on high starting pressure, there is no reason to consider other than what tests as best. Then, actual land relationship in this means nothing whatsoever. Doesn't matter a bit.
Just do full seating testing, measure & log your best CBTO, and don't ever mess with it again with that bullet & barrel.

It's similar to primers. Do you burnout a brain lobe about why one primer works better for your load than the others? No..
You test to find the best, log it, and never mess with it again.
These things are really that simple.

If you discover your magazine gets in the way,, or the bullet you chose will be seated too deep,, then you've also discovered that your planning sucks so far.
Another simple matter.

The Berger VLD bullets are more sensitive to seating depth than other bullets because of their secant ogive shape. Berger has published several articles talking about this. That's why I'm asking if anyone else has gotten the VLD bullets to group really tight in their magazine fed gun or if I should switch to a bullet that's not sensitive to seating depth (like Hornady or Nosler)

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

I recently bought a Ruger American in 300 win. I did a bunch of research before starting the load development and settled on Berger 210 VLD hunting bullets to try first. I read about the sensitivity to seating depth with those bullets but didn't realize the magazine on my gun would be a major limiting factor...I'm unable to seat them as far out as they need to be. I shot the initial rounds, working my way up through the powder charges, and got a couple charges to group just under 1" at 100 yds. Loaded up more charges around those 2 successful ones but haven't got a chance to go shoot them yet.

My question is this: if I can't get the groups to tighten up, should I switch to Noslers or another brand? Should I try the 185gr Berger Classic Hunters? A support tech from Berger told me they are designed to work better in factory rifles and be less sensitive to seating depth. Just don't know if I'm spinning my wheels trying to get Bergers to shoot in a factory rifle. Has anyone else had success with them in a non-custom gun?

For your info, the gun will be used primarily for hunting and I'd like it to shoot 1/2 MOA or better. I loaded up my rounds with H1000.

I would say to try the berger 215gr hybird set at your mag OAL and with H-1000 powder between 73grs and 78 you will find a load that will work

 

[Cole S]

In short, I think you can get them to group but you may have to fiddle with other things more, like try different powders etc. I'm interested to see the results of your next outing. how far are you jumping them now?

Right now they're jumping about .210" I may be able to seat them another couple thousandths out and still fit them in the magazine. The Berger article I read said most guns have a sweet spot about .030-.040" wide anywhere from touching the rifling to a .150" jump so I'm a little past the recommended jump.

 

[Jeffrey Van Zandt]

I recently bought a Ruger American in 300 win. I did a bunch of research before starting the load development and settled on Berger 210 VLD hunting bullets to try first. I read about the sensitivity to seating depth with those bullets but didn't realize the magazine on my gun would be a major limiting factor...I'm unable to seat them as far out as they need to be. I shot the initial rounds, working my way up through the powder charges, and got a couple charges to group just under 1" at 100 yds. Loaded up more charges around those 2 successful ones but haven't got a chance to go shoot them yet.

My question is this: if I can't get the groups to tighten up, should I switch to Noslers or another brand? Should I try the 185gr Berger Classic Hunters? A support tech from Berger told me they are designed to work better in factory rifles and be less sensitive to seating depth. Just don't know if I'm spinning my wheels trying to get Bergers to shoot in a factory rifle. Has anyone else had success with them in a non-custom gun?

For your info, the gun will be used primarily for hunting and I'd like it to shoot 1/2 MOA or better. I loaded up my rounds with H1000.

read this https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...PVN47KRIe5aDMGndoC0C3yo8V2xBir6Bhgi38GsjEf30k

 

[Cole S]

Then I would call that a success!
If its under or at MOA then I would be pretty happy with it seeing as its a hunting rifle.
Imho a hunting rifle doesn't need to shoot 1/2 moa, & you can spend way to much time/effort/money trying to achieve that.
If that is the projectile you want to use then without going through more LD with diffent powders or going down the BDM path(if there even available or an American?) then just run with that.
Your not trying to varmint rabbits or ground hogs at 400mtrs with it are you?

I would call it a semi-success. I agree that a hunting rifle doesn't need to shoot 1/2 MOA. I'm not trying to shoot small animals at long distances, but I just want it to be as accurate as possible...it's fun trying different loads and trying to tune it as best I can.

 

[Cole S]

how far are you planning on shooting?

Hunting: no further than probably 300 yards
Target: 5-600 yards, maybe further if I can find the space

 

[Cole S]

read this https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...PVN47KRIe5aDMGndoC0C3yo8V2xBir6Bhgi38GsjEf30k

I read that whole thread during my initial research. I think I ended up going with the 210s because those were the only bullets I could find on the shelf. I know, I know...I could have ordered them online.

 

[MAD10]

cole,

You won't know until you try jumping them...

for example I am jumping 300 gr Berger Elite Hunters in my .338 Edge 60 thou to the lands so I can load into the mag...3.920 OAL. it was designed as a single feed at 3.970 10 thou off the lands

from 10 thou to 60 thou it shoots in the .2 .3's all day long with single digit ES as well

I also jump a .35 Whelen 120 thou and it's a hammer too.

 

[aushunter1]

but I just want it to be as accurate as possible...it's fun trying different loads and trying to tune it as best I can.

I'm hearing you, I am very similar in how I go about my reloading accuracy but you can find yourself chewing through components & barrel life to find it!

I guess I have always been lucky, with all my rifles(including Rem 700's & browning's with floor plate) I have been able to load to the lands & mag feed.
I start all my LD regimes at 10 thou, find the node/s then change my CBTO to 5 thou & to 15 & 20 with the best performing charge, never had to go any further before finding the perfect depth, that's my method anyway, I usually have a result within 40 rounds, if I haven't I swap powders OR try another projectile which I have only had to do twice when loading for 7 different cartridges & up to 3 projectile types in a single rifle but never ventured more than 20 thou.


I use 130gr Berger VLD's in my 260 & they perform best @ 15 thou.

cole,

You won't know until you try jumping them...

it was designed as a single feed at 3.970 10 thou off the lands

That was going to be my next suggestion, single load through a new set of LD & see what happens, single feeding when hunting isn't really a great thing but its possible but off the bench easy to do.

The choice is yours, good luck with it

 

[HobieH3]

I recently bought a Ruger American in 300 win. I did a bunch of research before starting the load development and settled on Berger 210 VLD hunting bullets to try first. I read about the sensitivity to seating depth with those bullets but didn't realize the magazine on my gun would be a major limiting factor...I'm unable to seat them as far out as they need to be. I shot the initial rounds, working my way up through the powder charges, and got a couple charges to group just under 1" at 100 yds. Loaded up more charges around those 2 successful ones but haven't got a chance to go shoot them yet.

My question is this: if I can't get the groups to tighten up, should I switch to Noslers or another brand? Should I try the 185gr Berger Classic Hunters? A support tech from Berger told me they are designed to work better in factory rifles and be less sensitive to seating depth. Just don't know if I'm spinning my wheels trying to get Bergers to shoot in a factory rifle. Has anyone else had success with them in a non-custom gun?

For your info, the gun will be used primarily for hunting and I'd like it to shoot 1/2 MOA or better. I loaded up my rounds with H1000.

Still trying factory loads for my 270 Ruger American. So far it likes 130 CoreLokt best. Right at an inch at 100 yds. Discovered it's not a fun shooter, so I got a 223 to play with and will probly stop searching for a better 270 round. I bet that 300 WM is a beast in that light rifle...

 

[Cole S]

Still trying factory loads for my 270 Ruger American. So far it likes 130 CoreLokt best. Right at an inch at 100 yds. Discovered it's not a fun shooter, so I got a 223 to play with and will probly stop searching for a better 270 round. I bet that 300 WM is a beast in that light rifle...

You would be very correct about that. I sighted it in with a box of factory Hornady 178gr and it wasn't terrible. Shooting the 210s is a whole different animal. I bought a brake for it...