Scope advice and suggestions needed

[ARTJR338WM]

Although I have only joined this sight this month, I have spent alot of time here over the last six or so years just trying to learn a few things to try and make myself a better marksmen.

I just returned from my forth elk hunt, second one in Wyoming and once again I spent some time shooting at distances of 300, 400, and 500 yards and was once again pleasently surprised at the groups I shot. But I also confermed the short comings of the scope that presently sits on top of my 338wm. It is a older now discontinued VariX-II in 4-12x40mm. Although I shot good groups at 500yrds, their POI was to low to be of any use while hunting as my scope design does not lend itself well to adjustments in the field.

So my question is this. What scope is best suited for a M700 in 338wm for a maximum range of 600yrds that is priced under $750. I picked 600yrds because that is the maximum range of the public shooting range near my home. I am not assuming I will be able to shoot to 600yrds well enough to be able to consistantly make killing shots on elk or deer, but it would be my goal, at least at first.

The scopes I have been looking at so far are the Khales "Multi-zero" and the Sheapard scope, and would greatly appreciate what the opinions of these and any other scopes for dedicated long range hunting are by the members of this website. I am looking for a scope design that is the quickest and most simple to use while hunting. Im not looking for any short cuts so to speek on my road to long range shooting proficiancy, just the scope design that will make it as simple a process as possable. Im not interested in any of the new built in laser range finding scopes eithor.

Im just looking for suggestions on what the best scope for around $750 that is easiest to use. FWIW, While shooting off a rock with my rifle on my jacket I was able to keep 8 of 10 shots in a empty Colmen fuel can at 400 yards and my groups at 500 yrds averaged around 6.75" for a five shot group, although they droped almost 48" from cross hairs my point of aim.

Any other advice to a newbie on getting started would also be welcomed.
I hold no illusions on how much I would have to learn about shooting to become profeciant to 600yrds, but I am more than willing to put forth the effort and comitment to acheive my goals. Besides I looooooove to shoot and reload, and I would have to do alot of both to be as good at 600yrds as I am at 300yrds.

Thanks,
Arthur.

 

[jwp475]

Checkout the Zeiss conquest with target turrets, or Meopta or a Leupold with turrets. These will fit in your price range

 

[davewilson]

won't claim to have a great amount of experience in the long range game, but i have come to the conclusion that i would rather have extra dots/crosshairs than cranking the turrets. if you're only concerned with a very efficient hunting rifle, i think this is a better system. especially if you're only going to 600 or so. if shooting distances are much father, cranking the turrets is the only option.

i have one of those 4-12x40 Lupy's that i sent to Premier Reticles probably 20 years ago. he put 3 dots on it under the main crosshair for my load with 150 partitions that corresponds to 300, 400, and 500 yards, and to this day that gun will just flat out put the bullets in there at those distances.

i also have a custom dedicated long range rig with turrets, a reticle locking system and the whole 9 yards. my advice is if you plan on cranking turrets, you better have a VERY good scope as this is deffinitely the weak link in the system.

personnally, i would not choose Leupold if i was planning on cranking the turrets for different ranges.

 

[blipelt]

I had my brother's pickup the burris ballistic plex. They seem to work well they harvested deer out to 350yds. but I know in testing and working loads up they were good out to 500yds. It did however take some time to get them where they shoud be and find a load the gun likes and the scope is made for. I think leupold will make a recticle specifically for the load you use. I think this would be the way to go and you probably could have it installed in the one you have.
https://customshop.leupold.com/custom_shop.php

I went in a selected a VXII and you can make a custom recticle for it so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to make one for the scope you have now. If you are looking for turrets Sightron SIII are sounding really good and in the range you are looking to spend. I hope this helps






Brent

 

[woods]

Hey Art

I have 2 of the Kahles MultiZero's, 1 of the the Zeiss Conquests with a RapidZ 800 reticle, another Kahles with the TDS reticle and a Burris Black Diamond with a Ballistic Mil Dot reticle.

I love my Kahles MultiZero's (probably because I got them each for $600.00 off gunbroker a couple of years ago). You can make them fit any caliber and load by setting the marks on the top turret. However, Kahles are more expensive and they have recently changed ownership. No one knows what their customer service and warranty policies will be like in the future. They have been a fine company and are the oldest scope manufacturer so everything will probably be good. As far as putting on a heavy recoiling rifle, I have one on a 338 RUM now but it has a heavy barrel, ported muzzle and 2 recoil compensators in the stock so it kicks like a 30-06. That scope has not created a problem yet, but at this time I think I would be in deep doo-doo if it did. Would probably have to go back to Europe and it would probably be awhile.

The TDS reticle would be a fine reticle if you can find one in your price range. I think the only new TDS reticles are on Swarovski's. However it would fit your trajectory well. You would have to do a lot of work to formulate your load to fit the reticle.

IMO the Zeiss Conquests with the RapidZ reticles are the best way to go. The Conquest's are excellent scopes with the best clarity. They are selling tons of new scopes here in the US and their customer service has been superb from all reports. With their RapidZ 600 reticle

shooting a 225 gr Accubond at 2800 fps zeroing at 200 yards the bars will be on at 298 yds, 393 yds, 498 yds and 600 yds if you set your power on 8.7 with a 3.5x10 scope or on 7.83 with a 3x9 scope (I don't know why they would be different but that is what the form says).

If you want to go up in power to a 4.5x14 the you would get the RapidZ 800 reticle

shooting the same bullet then the bars would be on at 294 yds, 396 yds, 497 yds, 600 yds, 704 yds and 808 yds when you set your scope on 10.61 power.

One thing I quickly learned when shooting at the longer ranges is that the ballistic reticles are much better than guessing at holdovers and that the higher the magnification the better your groups will be.

The Conquest 4.5x14x44 RapidZ 800 is my favorite scope and the clarity is amazing. I no longer break out my spotting scope for long range shooting at the range because if you can not see the holes through the scope then spotting scope (admittedly not a good one) will not be able to see them either. I have seen 22 caliber holes in white paper at 300 yards on a good day with the Zeiss. You can have a 4.5x14 Conquest for right at $750.00 or a little less by calling the on line shops like Large Selection of Discounted Scopes, Binoculars, Rangefinders and More! , Quality optics and accessories from Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon and more! or Cameras, Binoculars, Spotting Scopes, Rifle Scopes - Camera Land NY even though they list higher.

The Burris is not in the same league as far as optical quality with the Zeiss or the Kahles. Their Ballistic Plex reticle would be close to your ballistics but again it will take some load development work to get it there.

I don't know about the Shepherd scope but it would be my guess that it would be at the end of the line.

JMHO

 

[lamiglas]

personnally, i would not choose Leupold if i was planning on cranking the turrets for different ranges.[/quote]


Just curious as to why you wouldnt use the leupold for cranking turrets. have you had problems, or heard of folks having problems with this?

 

[davewilson]

Just curious as to why you wouldnt use the leupold for cranking turrets. have you had problems, or heard of folks having problems with this?

yes, i've had problems with this and have heard of quite a few others who did also. i had my gun looked at just yesterday by a gunsmith who is as well known and knowledable as anyone in the long range hunting and shooting venue. he told me quite a few stories of his personal and many customers experiences with Leupold scopes. most of his knowledge came from Dick Thomas, who founded Premier Reticles, who, back in the day only worked on Leupold scopes. Dick probably knew more about Leupold scopes than anyone on the planet including anyone at Leupold. without writing a couple of pages about why they don't work and what their shortcoming are, all i can say is, i'll never buy another one again.

 

[slymule]

ARTJR338WM, I also have one of my long range guns (300RUM) set up with the Premier Reticle dots out to 800yds. and its worked great for years. I have two other long range guns that I twist turrets on and once my hunting season is over I will send both scopes to T.K. Lee to have dots installed out to 800 yds on them also. I will leave the target turrets on these scopes and will twist turrets for any distance further than 800yds. The reason I will send them to T.K. Lee is that Premier Reticle no longer will install dots in Leupold or Sightron scopes. All of these guns are sighted in for 300yds, I adjust my hold for 400yds, and I have dots for 500,600,700, and 800yds. The cost will be less than $150. to have this done. If you already have your load worked up, and thats the load you'll always use, I think its the easiest, fastest, and simpliest solution to shoot long range - especially if your only going to 600yds. Why not keep the scope you have, install dots out to 600yds and put the rest of that $750. in your pocket, or use it to buy reloading equipment or just more ammo to practise with. Here's another thought, you could send that scope back to Leupold and for $130. they could install M1 target turrets and you could twist turrets if you decide you want to reach out further in your shooting or if the dots don't appeal to you.

Can't give any advice on the Kahles scopes, never looked thru one before. The Shepherd scope I can comment on as I have a buddy that used to have one - I didn't like it at all, too cluttered for my taste and way to subjective in how its used to range animals. An example of what I mean by being too subjective is lets say at you spot an elk at 500yds, is it a large cow, a smaller younger cow, or maybe its a calf or even a bull. Their not all the same size, you'd be guessing whether their 16" or 30" from the top of their back to the bottomof their brisket, so basically your guessing at the distance they are from you. Instead of spending $750. on a new scope I'd install dots, or target turrets, or both on the scope you have, and the rest of the money could be spent on a rangefinder so you'll know the exact distance the animal is away from you. If you've already got one - ammo, reloading equipment, etc. or just put the money you'll save in the bank.

 

[davewilson]

Slymule, great advice, that's exactly what i plan on doing for my long range carry build this year. dots out to 800. talked with T K Lee today, seems like a real nice guy. a hunting gun with dots out to 600 would just flat out be great.

what size dots did you go with?

i don't think turrets can be put on the scope he has.

 

[slymule]

DaveWilson, its been 7 or 8 years ago that Premier Reticle put the dots on my scope - I don't remember anymore what size I went with. I haven't as yet sent my two scopes in to TK Lee, not going to until after our last elk season which ends the last of December. Gonna have to do a little playing around with dot sizes before I make a decision on what size I'll be going with. Don't know if they told you or not when you spoke to TK Lee, but unlike Premier Reticle, they can set the dots to whatever power you want them set at whereas Premier Reticle always set the dots to be on at your highest power setting on your scope. My one scope is a 4.5-14 power and I'll have the dots set to be correct at 14 power. My other scope is a 6-24 power and I'm sure I don't want them set at 24 power, probably go with 16 or 18 power.

 

[Pdvdh]

4.5-14X 44mm Zeiss Conquest with mildot or Rapid-Z 800 reticle.

This scope is available with standard cap-covered elevation & windage adjustment turrets, or uncovered target turrets for an additional cost.

For $750 or less, this is a scope you should consider.

 

[bowhunthard88]

Try Nikon, Burris, or Leupold. And think about a mil-dot scope maybe. It'd take practice, but once you figure it out it's fr!ck!n' awesome. With practice, I was able to shoot my 17 HMR @ 300 yds. Learn to read the wind too, lol.

Good luck.