Savage FCP-SR 168 grain Amax. Update*4-30-23

[ShootnMathews]

Hey group. I need some help on this rifle. It's a Savage FCP SR 24" barrel. I can't seem to figure this rifle out. I'm trying to work up a good hunting load for it. I've tried a few times over the last 6 years but I always give up or get busy. First I tried 212 ELD-X and about an inch was the best I could get. Then I tried just a couple loads with 150 Nosler BT because I had the bullets. Now I'm trying again with 168 Amax and Varget. Let me say here I'm not new to reloading. I load for almost all of my guns. And I know this gun will shoot because it'll do 1/2 moa all day with Fed GMM. The only luck I've had so far is jamming the bullets and it'll shoot 1/2 moa with my loads. But I'd rather jump them. I realize this is sparse info but I don't want to write a book for you to read. So any suggestions? Here's Two 3 shot groups jamming the bullets. I did make a scope adjustment between the groups.

Edit. I just woke up and had a thought. So I took another measurement to the lands and was surprised to get a total different measurement. Like .035" different. So the two groups in the pic were not jammed. They were set EXACTLY at the lands by pure chance. Not sure what happened the first time I measured but I'm going to try some more test groups based on this new measurement. Btw this second measurement I took by using a fired case and just sizing about 2mm of the neck, starting a bullet in the case and then just chambering the round and letting the lands seat the bullet. The cartridge extracted easy and the bullet did not stick to the lands. I think I'll repeat this test tomorrow.

 

[xsn10s]

Since Federal GMM worked I'd start by loading some 168 SMK's or Nosler CC's at 2.800" col. I get 168 gr ELDM's to shoot under .5 moa at standard mag length.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Try setting the seating depth for the Amax to the exact CBTO measurement of the 168 SMK. (so the ogive has the same jump as it does with the SMK). Not same COAL.

Those typically have a good bit of jump. Worth seeing if your rifle likes that distance to the lands.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Since Federal GMM worked I'd start by loading some 168 SMK's or Nosler CC's at 2.800" col. I get 168 gr ELDM's to shoot under .5 moa at standard mag length.

I have thought of trying that. In fact I almost bought them it I want a bullet for deer hunting and I'm not sure the SMK is good for that.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Try setting the seating depth for the Amax to the exact CBTO measurement of the 168 SMK. (so the ogive has the same jump as it does with the SMK). Not same COAL.

Those typically have a good bit of jump. Worth seeing if your rifle likes that distance to the lands.

I have thought of that. But I'm not sure how to do it. My bullet comparator .30 must not fit to the exact point of land contact because with the Amax on my comparator they touch the lands at 2.195". The FGMM and Sierra 168 SMK measure 2.212" And they don't feel like they are jammed in the lands. Bolt closes easy.

I have thought of trying that. In fact I almost bought them it I want a bullet for deer hunting and I'm not sure the SMK is good for that.

 

[jpd676]

I shoot Amax / ELDm in everything. They all seem to like .02 to .04 of jump for my rifles. 300wm x2, 300 RUM, 300 BO, 300 wsm, 300 prc and 308. Good luck.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I have thought of that. But I'm not sure how to do it. My bullet comparator .30 must not fit to the exact point of land contact because with the Amax on my comparator they touch the lands at 2.195". The FGMM and Sierra 168 SMK measure 2.212" And they don't feel like they are jammed in the lands. Bolt closes easy.

Different design of the bullets ogive. Some have a hard fit, some have a soft fit. SMKs are very forgiving design.


Measure distance to lands for the 168gr SMK (CBTO), subtract CBTO of the loaded FGMM = jump/ distance to lands.

Measure distance to lands for the 168 Amax and load it to the same jump as the 168 FGMM.

The CBTO and COAL for them with both be different, but the jump/distance to lands with be the same.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Different design of the bullets ogive. Some have a hard fit, some have a soft fit. SMKs are very forgiving design.


Measure distance to lands for the 168gr SMK (CBTO), subtract CBTO of the loaded FGMM = jump/ distance to lands.

Measure distance to lands for the 168 Amax and load it to the same jump as the 168 FGMM.

The CBTO and COAL for them with both be different, but the jump/distance to lands with be the same.

I'll have to pull a GMM apart to get a bullet but I'll try it. I was curious what they are jumping anyways

 

[ShootnMathews]

I shoot Amax / ELDm in everything. They all seem to like .02 to .04 of jump for my rifles. 300wm x2, 300 RUM, 300 BO, 300 wsm, 300 prc and 308. Good luck.

Awesome thanks. I'll give that window a shot

 

[ShootnMathews]

Ok. Now I'm getting somewhere with this load. My book lists 46 grains as max load and I stopped at 45 grains before which shot well with s&b primers but one bullet was kind of a flier. So this last round I went back to my standard 210M primer and decided to go up in charge. Additionally I opened a fresh can of Varget from a much newer production date. 45 grains this time shot about a 1" triangle. 45.3 shot about 1.25" diagonal string. 45.6 grains shot about a 1/2" triangle. So I went back in and loaded one more at 45.8 and shot this group. Definitely the best looking group by far. I think I'll load one more group at 45.9 and see how it does. At 45.8 I'm just starting to see an extractor outline and starting to feel some bolt lift resistance but it's not hard by any means.

 

[P7M13]

I had this same rifle. I was happy with the 3/4 MOA that I was getting out of 168 SMKs and Nosler BTs that were either jammed or 10 thou off the lands.
One day I ran out of my regular ammo, and I had some 150 PSP flat base plinking ammo that I had put together for my AR10. They were not assembled with any specific care for "match" accuracy. Prep the case, weigh the charge, seat the bullet to the cannelure.
These bullets had ~30 thou jump. I thought these would shoot like crap, but the point of my shooting that day was trigger technique and cheek weld.
First six shots were in a group that could be covered by a dime. Then a flyer ( still touching the group). The rest of the two MTM boxes were similarly accurate.
Taught me a few reloading lessons:

1. Don't get stuck on bullet shape because of BC.
2. Play with seating depth.

 

[DoneNOut]

I've load developed for at least 10 savage factory barrels. All chock full with a billion concentric reamer marks that collect copper like it was designed for that. I got them all to shoot sub MOA after 100-150rnds. Removing all copper every 50rnds for the first 100-150 and then cleaning it out every couple hundred. (This really has me in a conundrum about copper in a barrel. If Savages shoot so well with heavy copper fouling, how bad can it be?)

I load them all so they are .005" off the lands, but at touch when the trigger is pulled. You saying you let the rifling establish your seating depth is what a benchrest champ told me he does for comp, but he only used 1 thou neck tension.

I shoot 168 AMAX in a 20" Savage. Touch on lands is 2.855 and I load to 2.850. (AICS magazine) I am using 43gr of Varget, but my Varget is old and seems to be hotter than what I see reported today. 45-46 would have primers blown out of the Lapua cases.

A FGMM 168 is SMK COL 2.795-2.810. Powder of last lot was/is 40.5gr of an extruded type. Muzzle velocity is lower, 2525fps.Bug holes of course.

My latest 168 AMAX tests: (IMR4895 43.5 performs a bit better than 43gr Varget)

 

[ShootnMathews]

I've load developed for at least 10 savage factory barrels. All chock full with a billion concentric reamer marks that collect copper like it was designed for that. I got them all to shoot sub MOA after 100-150rnds. Removing all copper every 50rnds for the first 100-150 and then cleaning it out every couple hundred. (This really has me in a conundrum about copper in a barrel. If Savages shoot so well with heavy copper fouling, how bad can it be?)

I load them all so they are .005" off the lands, but at touch when the trigger is pulled. You saying you let the rifling establish your seating depth is what a benchrest champ told me he does for comp, but he only used 1 thou neck tension.

I shoot 168 AMAX in a 20" Savage. Touch on lands is 2.855 and I load to 2.850. (AICS magazine) I am using 43gr of Varget, but my Varget is old and seems to be hotter than what I see reported today. 45-46 would have primers blown out of the Lapua cases.

A FGMM 168 is SMK COL 2.795-2.810. Powder of last lot was/is 40.5gr of an extruded type. Muzzle velocity is lower, 2525fps.Bug holes of course.

My latest 168 AMAX tests: (IMR4895 43.5 performs a bit better than 43gr Varget)

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View attachment 446171

It's funny you saying the older Varget was hotter. When I first started this load work 45 grains shot 1/2 moa and I felt like I was close to tuning it in. But that can was down to maybe only a cartridge or two of powder left so I opened a new can that is much newer and 45 grains shot 1moa. I had to go up to 45.6 to get 1/2 moa again and then 45.8 pulled it into a bug hole. This makes me wonder what all mo other rifles with Varget loads are going to do with this new powder.

 

[DoneNOut]

It's funny you saying the older Varget was hotter. When I first started this load work 45 grains shot 1/2 moa and I felt like I was close to tuning it in. But that can was down to maybe only a cartridge or two of powder left so I opened a new can that is much newer and 45 grains shot 1moa. I had to go up to 45.6 to get 1/2 moa again and then 45.8 pulled it into a bug hole. This makes me wonder what all mo other rifles with Varget loads are going to do with this new powder.

If new Varget is a bit slower that is fine by me. I like to fill the cases to the base of the bullet. I don't think I'll be buying Varget until the prices of it get more reasonable. N135, IMR4895, IMR3031, TAC, AA2520 work as good. Not as temp insensitive, but I load to temp changes accordingly.