Reloading to replicate another caliber?

[TR1Hemi]

Over the years I have read many stories about people hurting themselves, a bystander or destroying their firearm in pursuit of the absolute maximum velocity for that caliber and a particular weight bullet. If a published or slightly over, X caliber and X bullet weight at X velocity is not cutting it and you push it, why? Why not just buy a firearm in a cartridge that does that at published loads? IE, pushing a 308 to risky levels, when you could just get a 300WM?

On the flip side, I have been shooting pistols at a range and had people comment on a load that has a bit of a "bark", and asked what load I was shooting. And when I tell them it is a published but below MAX (Hodgdon, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, Hornady manual load), they ask why I load so hot for practice. Well if I wanted 380 performance out of a 9mm, or 40S&W performance from a 100mm, or 38special performance out of a 357, I would have just bought one those calibers. Also, you should practice with what you are going to use to defend yourself.

So why do we load trying to duplicate a caliber that already exists?

I reload for the savings (not $ wise but in rounds fired), which are not as great as they once were, the enjoyment of it, or for accuracy that I am not getting from shelf ammo.

There are legit reasons, your modern gun is much stronger than those that the caliber originally came in (45 Colt). Or the original chambered guns had a chamber blueprint error, hampering pressure levels, but factory loads have to be loaded to be safe in the short freebored rifles that exist (6.8 SPC I vs II). Or you are restricted by platform (AR15).

 

[Ol' Red]

I don't do this, which explains so many calibers that I reload for. I try to load for accuracy not velocity. Safety is important to me.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

Over the years I have read many stories about people hurting themselves, a bystander or destroying their firearm in pursuit of the absolute maximum velocity for that caliber and a particular weight bullet. If a published or slightly over, X caliber and X bullet weight at X velocity is not cutting it and you push it, why? Why not just buy a firearm in a cartridge that does that at published loads? IE, pushing a 308 to risky levels, when you could just get a 300WM?

On the flip side, I have been shooting pistols at a range and had people comment on a load that has a bit of a "bark", and asked what load I was shooting. And when I tell them it is a published but below MAX (Hodgdon, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, Hornady manual load), they ask why I load so hot for practice. Well if I wanted 380 performance out of a 9mm, or 40S&W performance from a 100mm, or 38special performance out of a 357, I would have just bought one those calibers. Also, you should practice with what you are going to use to defend yourself.

So why do we load trying to duplicate a caliber that already exists?

I reload for the savings (not $ wise but in rounds fired), which are not as great as they once were, the enjoyment of it, or for accuracy that I am not getting from shelf ammo.

There are legit reasons, your modern gun is much stronger than those that the caliber originally came in (45 Colt). Or the original chambered guns had a chamber blueprint error, hampering pressure levels, but factory loads have to be loaded to be safe in the short freebored rifles that exist (6.8 SPC I vs II). Or you are restricted by platform (AR15).

Agreed! Plain and simple.

 

[snox801]

I don't think it's about matching another caliber speed. I think it nature of some to want the best performance they can out of any given thing. Think guys big turbo 4 cylinder cars. Some people like me can help. Even if I buy the biggest fastest muscle car I still gotta go one step farther.

 

[snox801]

I should stated I'm not talking a warm load versus hot. I can accept a warm load say go till you get some pressure then back off. It may be over book max or under each rifle is different. But a warm load to me I can accept that a hot one I don't like. I have seen people have to muscle the bolt up on the load they settled on. Also saw and know a guy that was loading so hot in a .357 it was messing up his brass bad in his revolver first shot.

 

[Wolf76]

I see your angle and you do hear people say "______ cartridge (with smaller case capacity) replicates the performance of a larger cartridge"
I load for best performance. If max performance is similar to factory ammo of a larger cartridge, so be it. I buy guns like I buy tools. They are job specific. Not breaking concrete with a framing hammer.

 

[RB II]

Kinda same issue with trying to shoot 115 gr bullets in a 6MM rifle. Requires ultra fast twist.
A 300 PRC will push a 168 gr bullet at almost 3300 fps with a max published load or Ramshot Magnum. A 7MM Rem mag will shoot a 168 gr bullet at about 2990 with the published max load of Ramshot Magnum.
Granted the BC is .664 in the .284 bullet and .475 in the .308 bullet
Would take a whole lot more horsepower and risk to push the 7 mag to 3300 fps.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I went through this early on prior to 1996 when semi auto rifles were banned. I had a Ruger Mini 14 and 2 BAR's one in 300WM & one in 338WM. The muzzle velocities on these were both way under bolt gun stuff I also had, so I wanted to increase that…big mistake! They just weren't capable of an increase due to design, but I wasn't savvy on this and I damaged both rifles doing so, only minor damage, but still damage. Lesson learned.
Ever since, I have only ever loaded to optimum accuracy, velocity is of no concern to me, however, I will always pick an upper node over a lower one because the upper one is still normally under max pressure anyway and I have the means to test for this anyway.

Cheers.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I start out with plenty of case capacity and plenty of barrel length with ALL of them.
Solves any performance concerns, ahead of time, within reason.
I like having room to moderate or maximize.
There is enough reliable data out these days to get a reasonable expectation of most
setups. Wildcats included.

 

[TR1Hemi]

I don't think it's about matching another caliber speed. I think it nature of some to want the best performance they can out of any given thing. Think guys big turbo 4 cylinder cars. Some people like me can help. Even if I buy the biggest fastest muscle car I still gotta go one step farther.

Dont get me wrong, I am a hotrodder too. But at some point you have to put the 305 away, an drop in a 350 or 383, better yet a big block.

 

[Mikecr]

You wouldn't put a big block in a stock car for the fun of pitting a couple extra times for fuel.
There would have to be a better and real need for it.

Given a desired bullet, I look for the smallest capacity that I can viably get the job done with.
Viable to me does not include low accurate barrel life and constant brass changes/replacement.
And getting the job done is tied more to accuracy than muzzle blast for me.

 

[QuietTexan]

Why not just buy a firearm in a cartridge that does that at published loads? IE, pushing a 308 to risky levels, when you could just get a 300WM

I work backwards of this, I'm (usually) more likely to load something large slower than it's max potential rather than push something small hotter. When I started making my own reamer designs I got into looking at bolt thrust and chamber pressures and it's pretty readily apparent that performance comes not only with a cost in components, but can really beat up your actions. I want a big margin of safety when I'm lighting off 120+gns of powder in a 30 cal bore a foot in front of my face. I had two 30-338s made - one in a big action with a 1.350" barrel, and the other in a standard action with a 1.250" barrel. Guess which one runs 150 FPS slower? Maybe I could make my RUM run faster, maybe not, but it will definately have much higher presure to get there.

I'm sure I'll try to find where a 245 Berger explodes out of my 30XC, but I'll ultimately settle on a load below max that shoots well.

Also, you should practice with what you are going to use to defend yourself

So this is why I don't do caliber debates with pistols. You can't miss fast enough to save yourself, and the best gun to have in a gun fight is the one with you and wasn't left at home. If I have to die, I'd rather go out knowing I put ten very small 22LR holes from a purse gun into the guy rather than zero 45 cal holes with the 1911 that's out in the truck. At least it's a head start for the next guy dealing with the problem I didn't end.

And before anyone says I can carry a 1911.... I can, but sometimes you go to Wal Mart at 10:30pm in gym shorts and I don't need the ladies chasing me around trying to score my digits.

I get power and energy and all that, but don't matter if you can't hit with it. My dad is almost 80, and is still an absolute menance with a 22LR. Couldn't hit the side of his house with a Glock, but a squirrel at 30 yards sitting on a limb is dead meat. He has a Marlin Model 60 next to his bed - I fully expect the coroner to find 18 tiny holes in whoever gets dragged out of his house Or him with an empty Marlin and a smile. Sometimes you fight as best you can and still lose, but at least you fought.

 

[memtb]

While I'm not timid about pushing my cartridge, I've never really tried to push it to the next dimension.

Now, I am guilty of light loading, primarily cast bullets, for money savings, less recoil, less wear and tear on the rifle, and simply…..just for the hell of it! memtb

 

[Roughrice]

I also think people read these forums and copy BS load data to meet or exceed the velocity that some of these internet world champions post as their super fast loads that shoot in the 1's or 2's.