Redding Type S Full Length Bushing Die – Can I Remove the Expander Ball?

[Full Curl]

I am in the process of FL sizing some 300rum brass. I'm using a Redding Type-S Full Length Bushing Sizing Die (#RED77288) with a Titanium Nitride Neck Bushing. In my process, I decap with another separate die so I removed the decapping pin extension from the die stem but left the expander ball installed. I'm not getting very consistent results trying to bump the shoulder back .002" in once fired brass. When I run a case into the die, the die body sizes the shoulder and body of the case and the neck is sized by the neck bushing. After the case is sized, and I remove it from the die, the expander ball makes contact with the case mouth as it comes out. Sometimes I feel this contact can "pull" on the case and change the shoulder and/or neck leading to bad runout issues which I'm finding at times.

I lube the expander ball and cases with imperial wax by applying with my fingers. I also apply a small bead of wax to one inside edge of the case mouth before sizing.

I'm thinking about just removing the expander ball completely. My neck bushing is .002" smaller than the outside neck diameter of a loaded case so there shouldn't be neck/bullet tension issues?? And if I ever needed the expander ball to reform bent case mouths I could just run a case partially into the die to only insert the expander ball and not touch the body. Then remove the expander ball and size the case right?

Does anybody else using these Redding full length busing dies remove expander balls? Other than possible excess neck/bullet tension, would there be any reason to keep using the expander ball?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Almost all of my dies are Redding Type S FL Match dies. The dies come with an expander ball and a collar which is used in place of the expander ball to hold the decapping pin. All of my FL dies have the collar in place, and I never use an expander ball. Nothing touches the inside of the neck going in or out.

 

[Rob01]

Almost all of my dies are Redding Type S FL Match dies. The dies come with an expander ball and a collar which is used in place of the expander ball to hold the decapping pin. All of my FL dies have the collar in place, and I never use an expander ball. Nothing touches the inside of the neck going in or out.

Same here.

 

[Rick Richard]

Remove it

 

[Old Rooster]

Me too.I remove the expander ball.

 

[cohunt]

Ditto, I think it even explains that you can remove it or use the collar right in their directions iirc

 

[The Oregonian]

You can use a neck mandrel after FL sizing to true the inside of the neck. That is my approach.

 

[SPitty]

Mine, too.

 

[Full Curl]

Ditto, I think it even explains that you can remove it or use the collar right in their directions iirc

I read through the directions that came with the die and it did say it could be removed but didn't say if it was recommended or not. It reads almost like they recommended keeping it installed on the stem but that it could also be removed if needed... it was vague at best.

 

[Full Curl]

Thanks for all the replies. I removed the expander ball and collar last night and FL sized 100 pieces of brass. I got better runout results and more consistency in shoulder bump distance. I test seated a bullet and just by pressure on the ram, I didn't feel any more or any less neck tension so I'm thinking it should work fine. I'm now wondering if my POI is going to change from the last batch of 100 rounds I shot that were FL sized using the expander ball meaning there could be a difference in bullet/neck tension?? We shall see.

 

[nksmfamjp]

This is always an interesting thread. I for one don't like removing the expander.

I can see why people would think it drags next off center, but I've just never measured that.

In essence, the sizing process seeks to push the shoulder back and recenter the inside of the neck. Bumping the shoulder resizes the outside of the body which centers it in the die perpendicular to the case head. This allows the taper of the case and shoulder to center the case in the chamber nearly perfectly. Resizing the outside of the neck makes the neck small enough that pulling the expander through can set a precise ID and centers the ID within the center of the body. The OD of the neck may have some measurable runout in lower quality brass. This is due to neck thickness variation. The thing is, if the OD of the body and ID of the neck are aligned, all is good.

Well, I thought I wanted to make better ammo once. I used a bushing die was setup correct. Bushing loose to self center. Got rid of the expander. Perfect, right. Sizing left me with a curl in the top of the neck. So, I expanded with a separate die. Seated bullets….but bullet runout was worse. I neck turned the brass to improve that. So, then I still had some neck runout after sizing. I figured out how to center the bushing and clamp it.

Then I tried expanding with the expander to skip a step. Worked fine. No increase in runout.

Now, I find better brass, clamping the bushing and centering the expander when locking it down works best. Measured.

 

[Rob01]

Pulling an expander back through a neck you just sized to the perfect neck tension you want makes no sense. You size down to open up to an ambiguous diameter of the expander? Nope. I run with loose bushing and no expander and no issues with runout or curl. Been doing this on multiple calibers for decades and will continue. Not sure what messed up for you.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Pulling an expander back through a neck you just sized to the perfect neck tension you want makes no sense. You size down to open up to an ambiguous diameter of the expander? Nope. I run with loose bushing and no expander and no issues with runout or curl. Been doing this on multiple calibers for decades and will continue. Not sure what messed up for you.

Good to hear.

 

[Full Curl]

So far so good on my end for removing the expander ball and only neck sizing with the bushing. I'm using quality Norma brass and getting very consistent neck tension. If I get a dented case mouth or anything that looks off with the mouth, I'll run only the expander ball through it without touching the body and then remove the expander ball and FL size without it.