Quandry about a specialty pistol for deer

[esshup]

Here's my quandary:

In this state, a person cannot use (with some special exceptions) a center fire rifle for whitetail deer. There were two proposals in the works to allow any center fire rifle to be used, but those were both shot down. I was hoping that I could now use my 7mm Allen Magnum rifle, but no........

So, I have a .45 cal Savage Muzzleloader that works fine out to 400 yds. if I do my part. BUT, I have 2 farms that I hunt where the shots can be 1,000 yd plus. Last year I had a herd of deer come out and feed at 700 to 800 yds, and there was no way I was getting any closer. It was like they knew what I had and stayed that far away.

So, I'm kicking around the idea of a specialty pistol for those instances. Here are the requirements:

"Handgun" means any firearm: (1) designed or adapted so as to be aimed and fired from one (1) hand, regardless of barrel length; or (2) any firearm with: (A) a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length; or (B) an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches. As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. - See more at: Ind. Code § 35-47-1-6 : Indiana Code - Section 35-47-1-6: "Handgun"

So, to me that means to get the most performance, I will have to keep an overall length of 25 7/8". I talked to the DNR, and any part that is removable is not to be counted in that measurement. I specifically asked if a muzzle brake that was screwed and not pinned on was to be included in that measurement and they said "NO". Neither is the scope. I also cannot take a rifle action that was sold as a rifle and convert it to a pistol, but if that same action is new and is sold as a pistol, I can use it. Go figure...........

With that said, what would be some platforms to look at? i.e. action/stock and caliber? The only limitation is that it has to fire a bullet .243" or bigger in diameter.

 

[Ernie]

I would run with a center grip XP-100 with either a 6.5 SAUM, 6.5-284, 284 Win, 7 SAUM or 7 LRM.
IF your state limits barrel length on a handgun to less than 16 inches, then I would do 15.9 inches of actual barrel length.

 

[esshup]

Thanks Ernie. The barrel can be longer than 16" but the overall length sans muzzle brake and scope has to be less then 26".

What model Kahles scope are you happy with?

 

[Ernie]

The 624i with the MOAK reticle.
Check out my latest article about it on this site.
Time to start measuring stocks, so you can determine what barrel length you can have.
I can get some measurements on both McMillan and HS Precision if you want me to.

Thanks Ernie. The barrel can be longer than 16" but the overall length sans muzzle brake and scope has to be less then 26".

What model Kahles scope are you happy with?

 

[esshup]

The 624i with the MOAK reticle.
Check out my latest article about it on this site.
Time to start measuring stocks, so you can determine what barrel length you can have.
I can get some measurements on both McMillan and HS Precision if you want me to.

Thank you Ernie. I will.

Yes, if you have the time to do that I would appreciate that.

 

[Ernie]

With the McMillan center-grip stock from the back of the tang of the stock to my muzzle with a 18" the length was like 24.5"
Translated: You can have a 18" barrel and still be below the 26" OAL
Pretty sure rear grip designs are going to more stock length behind the tang of the action, so I would stay with a center-grip if it was me.
I prefer center-grip for hunting as well.
The HS centergrip stock may have a little more length in the back than the McMillan, but not much.

 

[esshup]

With the McMillan center-grip stock from the back of the tang of the stock to my muzzle with a 18" the length was like 24.5"
Translated: You can have a 18" barrel and still be below the 26" OAL
Pretty sure rear grip designs are going to more stock length behind the tang of the action, so I would stay with a center-grip if it was me.
I prefer center-grip for hunting as well.
The HS centergrip stock may have a little more length in the back than the McMillan, but not much.

Thank you very much Ernie! So, that means I can have a barrel around 19.25" or so depending on the exact stock measurements.

Now to go try to determine which of those calibers you listed might perform better. I'm leaning towards 7mm because I already have bullets, but I surely won't count out a 6.5mm.

 

[Ernie]

Now since you are looking at a longer barrel I would be considering the 7LRM and 7mm Dakota class of cartridges.
What you are looking for is enough impact velocities for said bullet at "X" distance to still perform on game.

 

[engineer40]

So in Indiana there are no requirements other than it needs to be at least a 243 bullet?

In lower Michigan it needs to be a straight walled cartridge not longer than 1.8 inches case length, and at least a 357 sized projectile.

When I was reading a while back, I thought Indiana and parts of Ohio shared that same "straight walled cartridge" verbiage? Maybe not though.

Also if I'm reading this correctly, you intend on shooting a non-shoulder fired weapon out to 800 yards? I'm not crapping on your dreams here. I just want to make sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish.

One last point... I would not take what any DNR officer says as gospel. I have had 2 disagreements with DNR officers in the last 5 years on topics that I ended being right on. And after I showed them the laws in the book, they agreed with me. The DNR state hunting regulations are sometimes long (MI is like 80 pages) and full of fluff that you don't care about. But when you are trying to walk that thin line of barely being legal with a Frankenstein'ed firearm, I'd read it all... word for word. No matter what any DNR officer tells you, it's what's in writing that's the law.

Good luck! Sounds like a fun project for you.

 

[tinkerer]

Well, if you decide on a SP, I have a couple available in various calibers from 22-250, 243, 7-08, and 308 that you could go hunting with immediately, all Savage Strikers in custom stocks. I even have a Savage model 12 left hand with a 18" barrel with brake in 284 win for those LR shots, but it DOES NOT meet those criteria.

All have nice LR scope and some great wood.

Thinning the herd due to illness.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Larry
Tinkerer

 

[Ernie]

With the right XP-100, shooter, and good conditions a first shot in the vitals from field positions at distance is very realistic.

 

[esshup]

Thanks guys and thank you Ernie. I do have a LR rifle, Kirby Allen built a 7mm Allen Magnum for me and it works great. Other than a lot of steel targets and rocks out past 1K, a cow elk at 705 and a coyote from a clean cold barrel at 867 is what it's taken so far. Unfortunately, here in Indiana it isn't legal to use for deer unless it's a depredation hunt, AND the biologist allows CF rifles to be used.

engineer40:
The deer hunting regulations in Indiana are screwey. You can use any center fire rifle you want for varmints, up to and including .50 BMG. For deer? Not so fast partner. In a rifle? The bullet dia. must be ..357 or larger and the brass (cartridge) cannot be longer than 1.8". There is no stipulation on it having to be a straight wall cartridge. Look up .358 Hoosier.

In a pistol? ANY cartridge is allowed, as long as it's .243 bullet dia. or larger and the brass is longer than 1.16" in length. If you have the hands and cajones large enough to shoot a .50 BMG in a pistol that isn't longer than 26" from stem to stern without the brake, it's legal.

Yes, what is legal in a pistol is NOT legal in a rifle....... That is in the printed regulations.

I have a Smokeless Savage Muzzleloader in .45 cal that is capable of taking a deer out to 400 yds if the conditions are right. In good conditions, it will shoot a 1/2 moa 3 shot group at 300 yds. It's pushing a .40 cal Barnes 195g bullet at 2850 fps. BUT, it has the bc of a brick, so it peters out pretty quickly.

There are 2 farms that I can hunt, and both are like pool tables. One has an abandoned RR track that the "bed" roughly 10' higher than the fields. The fields are surrounded by woods, but there isn't much if any cover on the farm itself. The farm is approx. 1/2 mile wide, and 3 miles long, 3,200 acres. The other farm has the same scenario, i.e., not much cover in the farm itself, but is surrounded by woods. That farm is around 800 acres. So, the deer walk out to feed onto this pool table from the surrounding woods.

Since the deer haven't been shot at with anything that has some legs, they feel safe 5-600+ yds away. With equipment that can reach out there, I can set up a small portable shooting bench inside a pop-up ground blind and cover a lot of area....... Last year many times the deer were 800+ yds away. With the right equipment and practice, I know that first shot hits on deer in the vitals would be easily accomplished. I have all the peripherals, rangefinder, exbal, etc., etc.

 

[Artpro]

I agree with Tinkerer. Almost any cartridge based on the 308 case. I lean towards the 260. I shoot/hunt with a Striker in that caliber, as well as an in ultra light Rem M7 rifle. I also shoot an XP in 6BR. and an XPR in 22-250 which started out as a 260. This one might end up in 338 Fed.

 

[Buttermilk]

Ernie will steer you right.

My own XP-100 7 SAUM will push the Berger 168 VLD hunting bullet at some pretty good speeds for a 17.5" barrel.

2750+ FPS. (I've seen 2850 FPS before I got some pressure signs - just think my chrono might have been optimistic that particular day with sun angle...).


Brass is available and it has a good size case capacity. Plus it's a match made in heaven for the XP action.