Laguna Freak
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I'm curious when you bought them, if there was some flawed machining/production issue??? I've been using the same one for a few years. Though I've only used it in 4 chambers, mine seems fine.
Over all length gauge?
- Thread starter KyleC
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Nothing in my OAL/CBTO measuring changes, regardless of erosion. It's still just gizzy/calipers.
As far as an 'answer' to how much erosion, why would you care about it? It means nothing, and leaves nothing to act on..
Thanks for posting the video! I ordered this tool a few days ago but hadn't seen any instruction on how to use it.
while the sinclair is much better than hornadys it can be very inaccurate. the point from bullet touching lands and sticking in lands can be over .010 difference and jammed can be another .010 difference on top of that.
a little tip to help with consistency, put a cleaning jag on your cleaning rod making sure to remove the point, insert from muzzle and with the sinclair tool and the cleaning rod you can work the bullet back and forth to find the point of touch without any jam. always check on a clean barrel and measure multiple times.
i skip the sinclair tool and just put bushings on the cleaning rod. push it in until it hits the bolt face, push bushings against muzzle and set back bushing then put bullet in chamber work bullet back and forth to find touch and set front bushing then measure in between, seat bullet in case to that length and then measure your CBTO. always use the same bullet since their length can very quiet a bit.
Good luck and keep us posted.
baldhunter
Well-Known Member
I started using a resized case,seating the bullet,then pulling the bullet with my collet puller,then seating it again long.Then I slowly chamber the case with the bullet and close the bolt.After the bullet has been pulled and reseated,once it hits the lands,the bullet will slide back into the case when you close the bolt.The case will hold the bullet tight enough that you cannot move it by hand,but loose enough that the bullet can move when chambered.I save that dummy case as a reference to know that is my absolute max length to lands.Then I know to seat down from that.
that is what I call hard jam. it works very well but is neck tension sensitive and not for the inexperienced. not something i recommend to newer reloaders because it can send pressures through the roof if done incorrectly.
baldhunter
Well-Known Member
No you are no understanding it right.What I do is make the dummy that is the max length with a particular bullet for my rifle.I save that dummy round so when I set my die up,I'll set the seater up to my dummy round.Then when I seat my first round of a load,it will be set at the max length.Then say I want the rounds to be seated at .030 off the lands,I'll adjust the seater until down until I get to that measurement.I never ever seat a loaded round into the lands.That is a good way to get into trouble.Different powder,bullet lots and primers can lead to pressure spikes.There is also the chance of the bullet being stuck into the lands if you try to eject a live round.I'd like to also add,I use a Hornady comparator gauge to measure which is way more accurate than base to tip.
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
No it isn't. COAL/CBTO is not taken from a shoulder datum, but from the case head/bolt face.
Most using that method (adjusting from a case shoulder) end up averaging for a final number..
And unless the test case is fully fireformed (unsized), in YOUR chamber, you have no chance that that average would be right.
The only method possibly as accurate, or maybe even better than a cleaning rod method, is demonstrated by Alex Wheeler in a video.
This is simple trial & error with the firing pin removed. You sneak into free bolt handle fall.
With no tools, this works.
i understand what your doing and use the same method on some of my rifles. but .030 off hard jam is a lot different than .030 off touch and with people using different terminology for the same thing people get confused. just for fun some time use the touch method with your cleaning rod and you will come up with totally different numbers. but with the touch method you can still go .003-.009 in the lands and not stick a bullet, but you can't do that with jam without causing dangerous conditions and with terminology confusion it can easily be confused. that is the reason I don't recommend it to new reloaders not that you are being unsafe.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
This would really be a matter of your touching force.
With a cleaning rod method, barrel pointed downward ~60deg, I slip a test bullet into the chamber and feed it to leade with the eraser end of a pencil. I leave that pencil weight against bullet base.
With my cleaning rod tool inserted in muzzle I can gently lift the bullet on/off contact watching the pencil.
I'm delicate with it.
The only times I mess with this at all is when my highest acceptable COAL obviously hits the lands on chambering a dummy round.
Otherwise, I don't care about land relationship, as I will be testing for best somewhere off the lands (OTL).
With a cleaning rod method, barrel pointed downward ~60deg, I slip a test bullet into the chamber and feed it to leade with the eraser end of a pencil. I leave that pencil weight against bullet base.
With my cleaning rod tool inserted in muzzle I can gently lift the bullet on/off contact watching the pencil.
I'm delicate with it.
The only times I mess with this at all is when my highest acceptable COAL obviously hits the lands on chambering a dummy round.
Otherwise, I don't care about land relationship, as I will be testing for best somewhere off the lands (OTL).
Wedgy
Well-Known Member
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Another thing to keep in mind is that your Hornady insert is measuring the bullets position in the case, not the true distance to the lands. Unless the insert was cut with your chambers reamer it has an otherwise random size hole that most likely is not the same size/angle as your lands. It would imply that all chambers are the same. It is a useful too though and can give very repeatable results. I have had the Stoney gauge for a long time and I don't see how you can break it if using it correctly.
Running a pin gauge thru some of the inserts may surprise you also, same with bushings, they aren't all the size they are labelled and our measurements are only as good as our tools.
Running a pin gauge thru some of the inserts may surprise you also, same with bushings, they aren't all the size they are labelled and our measurements are only as good as our tools.
It is amazing to me, with four pages of comments, and maybe a couple of comments relevant to the OP's question. I am guilty of that as well.
And some people so wrapped up in their method, they refuse to accept anything else, meanwhile it is like measuring with a micrometer and cutting with a chainsaw. Thank Len for the "unwatch" choice, but sometimes, I just come on line and it stares me right in the face.
@KyleC I think someone suggested calling Hornady. I think that was the best advice. After that, watch videos on the alternative methods and tools and you decide what works for you. I have used both Cleaning Rod and Hornady OAL too for years. Many competitive shooters use the method Demonstrated by @Alex Wheeler.
And some people so wrapped up in their method, they refuse to accept anything else, meanwhile it is like measuring with a micrometer and cutting with a chainsaw. Thank Len for the "unwatch" choice, but sometimes, I just come on line and it stares me right in the face.
@KyleC I think someone suggested calling Hornady. I think that was the best advice. After that, watch videos on the alternative methods and tools and you decide what works for you. I have used both Cleaning Rod and Hornady OAL too for years. Many competitive shooters use the method Demonstrated by @Alex Wheeler.
