Now, how do I get this damn dovetail to turn??!!

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Ramses II, Apr 18, 2005.

  1. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    I have a 30 MM tube Super Sniper Scope. Want to put her on my Savage 10FP. I have Leupold one piece base and Leupold 30 MM rings. The front is a dovetail, and the rear is held by horizontal screws that match a groove in the rear ring. You guys are probably fmailiar with it.

    So, what's the best way to turn the dove-tail ring 90 degrees?

    Any advice on how to mount the ring in alignment? Thanks,

    Ramses II
     
  2. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    If you don't have the dovetail wrench you'll have to tighten the ring down on a pipe or something round and turn it. As far as alignment goes, just make sure the scope sets down in the rings. You can buy fancy tools for perfect alignment and lapping the rings, but as long as the scope sets all the way to the bottom of the rings with no daylight showing it should be OK. Don't force it down. When the alignment is right it will just fit.
     
  3. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Me, i'd bin the mount or sell it on ebay and get something decent. Picatinny rail and corresponding rings area far better option.
    Regards Pete
     
  4. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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  5. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Pete!,
    You have a way of getting right to the point /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    If you are going to use that type of ring make sure that the dovetail is greased, but the guys are correct - Warne Maximas will cost the same and there aren't any dovetails. Never tighten a dovetail system using the scope for leverage, gives my the vapors when I see someone do that! Piece of dowel is OK but the best is two pieces of metal rod that have points, just put one into the first ring and twist the second ring (dovetail) until the points touch. That ensures the rings are in a straight line, no torque on the scope tube.
    But Pete had the best advice.
     
  6. brian b

    brian b Well-Known Member

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    I agree the only scope mounting system worse than a dual screw rear windage is.......absolutely nothing.
    B
     
  7. HoytemanPA

    HoytemanPA Well-Known Member

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    OK so I've often wondered. To me two bars with points touching don't mean they are in line with each other, it just means they are pointed in the same general direction. Don't it? I mean either flopping them around so two flat surfaces touch or using a long lapping bar I can understand but the points could be twisted off center and still touch. Right? Or am I missing something here? What they could do is show that one base is higher than the other, but once again couldn't that also be done with cut off round bars? I just don't get the points.
     
  8. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    OK so I've often wondered. To me two bars with points touching don't mean they are in line with each other, it just means they are pointed in the same general direction. Don't it? I mean either flopping them around so two flat surfaces touch or using a long lapping bar I can understand but the points could be twisted off center and still touch. Right? Or am I missing something here? What they could do is show that one base is higher than the other, but once again couldn't that also be done with cut off round bars? I just don't get the points.

    [/ QUOTE ] You are right "What horse Sh_t" Years ago when I saw these alignment bars in the Brownells Catalog I knew at that point that Brownells sells fishing lures to wanabe's(aka suckers)For all you suckers that believe this crapola, find someone who knows how to use a mic and ask them to measure various brands of rifle scopes main tubes. They are not all the same main tube dimensions are they! Heck no! Do you think the people who make rings don't know this? They make them to fit the largest tubes. So now you take these pointy UNDERSIZE rods "slip" them into the rings and drag the front ring around to face and point at the rear, PLEASE, give me a break! There was only one Manufacture that took into account the different main tubes and Buhler is long gone. I can't but wonder at some of the crap I see in print!
     
  9. longtooth

    longtooth Well-Known Member

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    I use a wooden dowel to turn the front ring and a lapping bar to align the back and front rings. Then the rings are lapped in. I use friction paper in the rings and lock tight the screws. I tighten the windage screw all the way in, then I loosen it all the way counting the clicks, then divide that by 2 and tighten it that many clicks, that moves the cross-hairs to the approximate center of the tub then I sight in the windage at 50 feet using the two screws on the back ring. Then I move it out to 100 meters and again use the screws to adjust the windage, I may adjust the elevation at this time also. I move out to 300 meters and still use the screws to adjust the windage, I only use the windage knob for fine movements at the end, but not more then 10 clicks. Always loosen one screw and tighten the other to move the windage, always tighten screws very tightly before shooting. If you use the windage knob or elevation for that mater tap the scope or fire a round to make sure it has moved the cross hairs or you may get a group shift after the first round.
     
  10. longtooth

    longtooth Well-Known Member

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    Using two points to align the rings will get you close but using a lapping bar will get you closer. But if you want to be dead on then you need two bars ground to .995. Place them in the rings so they have only a few thousandths separating them and use a micrometer to measure the ends, if the measurement is more then .995 they are off when they measure .995 they are aligned.
     
  11. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    3Six Here is a question for ya. But before I ask it I just want to say I am asking this with all sincerity even though it sounds like it belongs in the stupid question category. I am asking you because you have the most passionate response to that posted above.

    Here we go, If I get my scope rings alligned with a (straight) dowel and check for a no gap under the dowel on either ring or if I use the pointy things (which seem to me that they would work nicely if used right even if the diameter is a wee bit small) how much closer do I really need to be and why? I (possibly in complete ignorance) have believed that the whole ring lapping thing was the "fishing lure" except in the case of bad ring height allignment or pre machined bases as on a Ruger receiver. It is my understanding that alluminum scope tubes expand at a different rate than steel receivers so unless we were at the same temp at which the scope was originally mounted that there would be some sort of strain and bending of the scope tube anyway. If this bending dosen't matter then why would a teency weency bit of ring misalignment (which should straighten its self a little with the final tightening of the rings and a few repeated firings)?

    Long question but I am interested in your response. It's all about learning something I probably don't know.

    BTW I use a Holland one piece 20 MOA base on my .308 so I don't currently have any rings to align.
     
  12. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    One piece or two piece base design, makes no difference, if there is ANY reason both bases/rings lean toward each other (warped receiver, machining error etc.) the pointed alignment bars may indicate the ring bores are inline when in fact they both drop at the points. Same if they lean away too. If the pointed bars are tight in the ring bores they will only indicate if they are inline on the horizontal plane not vertical. Verify using a straight edge on the bars, flat or pointed type, but best to lap in ANY case to be sure.

    Agree with Pete and others though, ditch those for the Picatinny rail/rings combo.
     
  13. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    3sixbits I found a somewhat answer to this dilema! I had my machineist at work make a set of alignment rods for me that were perfectly the same size as my main tube but instead of pointing them I had him make them so they would slide into each other once ligned up. The tolerances on the two ends that mate are soo tight when you slide them apart they create a suction! When your rings are in alignment with each other and only when the two bars will mate. If anyone is interested I will post pics of the setup or I can email them if you want. It works great but if there is alot of difference in main tube size you may need more than one set.
     
  14. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    3Six Here is a question for ya. But before I ask it I just want to say I am asking this with all sincerity even though it sounds like it belongs in the stupid question category. I am asking you because you have the most passionate response to that posted above.

    Here we go, If I get my scope rings alligned with a (straight) dowel and check for a no gap under the dowel on either ring or if I use the pointy things (which seem to me that they would work nicely if used right even if the diameter is a wee bit small) how much closer do I really need to be and why? I (possibly in complete ignorance) have believed that the whole ring lapping thing was the "fishing lure" except in the case of bad ring height allignment or pre machined bases as on a Ruger receiver. It is my understanding that alluminum scope tubes expand at a different rate than steel receivers so unless we were at the same temp at which the scope was originally mounted that there would be some sort of strain and bending of the scope tube anyway. If this bending dosen't matter then why would a teency weency bit of ring misalignment (which should straighten its self a little with the final tightening of the rings and a few repeated firings)?

    Long question but I am interested in your response. It's all about learning something I probably don't know.

    BTW I use a Holland one piece 20 MOA base on my .308 so I don't currently have any rings to align.

    [/ QUOTE ] Well the sever just lost me an hours work on the reply. I will do it in a word doc and PM you 4Ked Horn. DERN THING ANYWAY!