Now for a dumb question

[Squatch]

I just got a new 6.5x284 Cooper. I received a new set of Forester Brenchrest dies that say 6.5x284win on the box.
I fired my first 15 rounds and went to resize them and they will not fit into the resizing die. I am new to the long range game and the 6.5x284, but not to basic reloading and I have never seen brass so tight going into a resizing die.

Am I missing something here?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Check with Cooper to be sure which 6.5x284 you have...But the only 6.5x284 chambering I see on their website is the 6.5x284 Norma. There is the Win, Norma, and Norma Improved. If i had to guess, I'd say you probably have a 6.5-284 Norma. The dimensions are slightly different than the Win...I would send the dies back and get the correct ones.

 

[Barrelnut]

Are you actually able to size the brass with the die and it just takes some brute force to push the brass in and pull it out? It it so tight you are afraid to push the brass all the way in? Case stuck in the die? Hope not

Did you clean the new die with alcohol, acetone, etc. before using it?

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I think you have a set made for the cartridge based off of the original .284 we casings, something that would be impossible to find these days. I have a friend who actually held a World Record at Williamsport using this case but could never make the newer casings work as good. I would think with some extra lube and elbow grease you should be able to make it work. Maybe one of the gunsmiths on this site can help clear this up...are there different reamers made for different casings for the 6.5/284... God another fiasco caused by it !!

 

[duckhunter175]

I think there is a slight difference in throat length with the Norma (SAAMI) version being slightly longer.

My new RCBS dies do say 6.5x284win but I have had ZERO issues sizing and seating Nosler and Lapua "NORMA" stamped brass.

Here are some links to the specs.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/6-5x284-norma-vs-6-5x284-win-101370/

6.5-284 Cartridge Guide

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 6.5-284 Norma has a longer shoulder/neck junction (headspace) measurement, which is why he is having issues sizing, because his chamber in his rifle is for 6.5-284 NORMA. Every time he sizes using a 6.5-284 WIN FL sizing die, he is having to push the shoulder back .0205". That's the major resistance he is most-likely getting. The 6.5-284 Norma (like I said before) is slightly different, he needs to buy 6.5-284 NORMA dies.

 

[duckhunter175]

The 6.5-284 Norma has a longer shoulder/neck junction (headspace) measurement, which is why he is having issues sizing, because his chamber in his rifle is for 6.5-284 NORMA. Every time he sizes using a 6.5-284 WIN FL sizing die, he is having to push the shoulder back .0205". That's the major resistance he is most-likely getting. The 6.5-284 Norma (like I said before) is slightly different, he needs to buy 6.5-284 NORMA dies.

Mud- tracking what you said earlier and I'm new to the game. Trying to find some of the older threads that I used when I had the exact same question before buying dies.

My rifle is chambered for SAAMI 6.5x284 NORMA and I'm using new dies from RCBS that are labled as 6.5x284win but not experiencing any of the problems listed on the thread.

Trying to find the old thread on here or 6mmBR about these dies. I thought... and others had stated that RCBS, Redding etc were now using the standardized measurements but had kept their die names the same because of the parent case.

Is it plausible he has an older set of dies that are to actual 6.5x284win measurement?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mud- tracking what you said earlier and I'm new to the game. Trying to find some of the older threads that I used when I had the exact same question before buying dies.

My rifle is chambered for SAAMI 6.5x284 NORMA and I'm using new dies from RCBS that are labled as 6.5x284win but not experiencing any of the problems listed on the thread.

Trying to find the old thread on here or 6mmBR about these dies. I thought... and others had stated that RCBS, Redding etc were now using the standardized measurements but had kept their die names the same because of the parent case.

Is it plausible he has an older set of dies that are to actual 6.5x284win measurement?

Very plausible. Lots of places might have NOS (New-Old Stock) still sitting on the shelves, if it was not a popular seller (I don't know if it was or was not). Or, it could be possible that someone at that store ordered an actual set of 6.5x284 Win. dies and they sat on the shelves, then he purchased them thinking his rifle was a 6.5x284 Win, or that the dies were like the new ones that still say "Win" on them, instead of being for the new Norma chambering.

This is why I said in my first post that he most-likely needs a correct set of dies.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

That's what I like about the guys on here.....ask and ye' shall receive information !!!

 

[Squatch]

Very plausible. Lots of places might have NOS (New-Old Stock) still sitting on the shelves, if it was not a popular seller (I don't know if it was or was not). Or, it could be possible that someone at that store ordered an actual set of 6.5x284 Win. dies and they sat on the shelves, then he purchased them thinking his rifle was a 6.5x284 Win, or that the dies were like the new ones that still say "Win" on them, instead of being for the new Norma chambering.

This is why I said in my first post that he most-likely needs a correct set of dies.

That's what I like about the guys on here.....ask and ye' shall receive information !!!

All great information. When I attempted to resize the brass it stopped with about 3/4 of an inch of case still below the die. I am not a small person and I thought I was going to rip my press off the bench pulling the case back out.
My Cooper is brand new. I emailed them today and have not heard back yet. The dies were Forester Benchrest dies that are now listed as discontinued. Lucky for me the store they were purchased at took them back today.
When I called Forester, they told me I would have no problems with these dies when I told them the gun I had on order. So much for expert customer service. Clearly not the case. I have a buddy of mine with a Cooper in the same caliber and used RCBS dies with no issues.
I am gonna wait for Cooper to email me back and then buy a set of Redding or RCBS dies.

Everybody on this site is Great! Thank you guys!

 

[Cuz]

Headspace should be the same. The norma version has a longer throat,but both versions should have the same headspace as the parent 284 win. Case.

 

[Trickymissfit]

one small thing I'd do, is take three or four once fired cases (unsized of course). Then measure the shoulder, and about .200" above the rim. You should be seeing something close to .500" and .475" at the shoulder. I read that you said the die stopped moving 3/4" from the bottom. Next try removing the stem and see if you see a difference. (good time to measure the neck's I.D. and the sizer ball at the same time. Then add the neck wall thickness (doubled) to the I.D.

With the die stopping 3/4" from the bottom, The issue probably not the shoulder area and maybe not the last .20". Still it never hurts to check. I don't do anything with a .284 case, but with other cases I have built ring gauges for the correct sizes. Sounds hard, but it's easy, and many can be bought over the counter. Most of mine are needle . bearing inner races (like a 12mm or 13mm for a .300H&H case). Hornaday supplies the gauge line number for the diameter .200" off the base.

I'd go back and check the die setup and make some measurements. Bad dies are not that common and usually don't show up till the final .35" of travel or even less.
gary

 

[el matador]

I highly doubt it's an issue with shoulder length, or the difference between Norma and Win chamberings. A good sizing die should be able to push the shoulder all over the place without too much effort.

I ordered some Forster dies for my 270 WSM about a year ago. I really like the design of the expander ball and I was excited to use them. When I tried sizing my first case I had the same problem you are describing. I could not get it half way in before things bound up. I tried more lube, different lube, and even factory new brass with lots of lube. Nothing would work! I looked inside the die body and noticed a bunch of ripples in there. I'm not sure what caused it, but it was a manufacturing problem for sure. Forster gladly took it back and sent me a new die, and it works great.

 

[engineer40]

Headspace should be the same. The norma version has a longer throat,but both versions should have the same headspace as the parent 284 win. Case.

Good to read that! I still need to order my gauges for a new 6.5-284 Norma barrel I have coming and cannot find any 6.5-284 "Norma" gauges. They are all 6.5-284 "Win" gauges. I've read so much conflicting stuff on multiple forums about this subject.

Fairly sure I determined that I can use the 6.5-284 Win Go/NoGo gauges but need to use the 6.5-284 Norma reloading dies.

If anybody thinks differently, please let me know. Thanks.