New Load Advice

[gordonl]

First time posting here, long time lurking.
I just bought an X-Bolt medallion 30-06 22in barrel and its topped with a Vortex Viper 4-16x50 FFP...this is my dream gun btw and I plan on using it A LOT!!
I also am an avid reloader with .45ACP, 223, and 300BLK.

I have a few questions about three loads I want to develop, please bear with me...

-I want to load the 180 partition over IMR 4831 going over 2700 fps for elk/moose...is this a good idea? Will it expand at 500 yards? (yes I can make the shot if I need to on a wounded animal, where I hunt there are a lot of s#@ty hunters)
-Should I use the 150r TTSX or the 165 for hog, deer? Would the 165 be able to take moose out to the ranges of the 180 partition, if so could that could be a "do it all round"?
-Whats a good target round? I was leaning towards the TMK either 150ish or 160ish grains, I would like to be able to hit 800y with ease...most of the time though ill be shooting less than 500 ...for now.

Thanks in advance!

 

[g0rd0]

your load seems good, as long as you verify and work up. 180 grn partition is a good choice, also a 150 grn etip is good. With the 150 grn etip you may want to go with RL19.
I have knocked down moose with 7mm etips (150grn) at just under 200 yards, 1 shot no travel he just droped. I have also hit 6 white tail deer drop where they where 1 shot all. I cannot tell you how they preform over 200 yards that is the max around here

 

[sourdough44]

Nice rifle, I normally use 165 grain in 30 cals for deer hunting. The 180's would work too.

Do some testing. I normally use one of the 4350's in the 30-06 with 165-180 grain bullets.

 

[Darkker]

4831 is going to be hard pressed to get you that velocity with a 180gr. So, "is it a good idea?" That is an open ended question, but here are some realistic answers.
Most good data is fired from SAAMI minimum spec test equipment, meaning mass produced fir firearms won't be able to achieve the same velocities. No one lists lot numbers tested, everyone ASSumes that canister powder is identical, it is NOT. So does your powder have the same burninaround? Likely not, when you suddenly match or exceed book velocity, you have exceeded book pressures, regardless of the specific charge weights used.
It had also become vogue for new reloaders to make two dangerous assumptions.
1) You can accurately and safely guage Pressure by "signs". That is absolutely false! In most modern firearms, using unknown alloys in brass, the average Joe will " notice" pressures, North of 70,000psi; I have the Pressure Traces from rifles to prove this fact. "Signs" are better than nothing, but absolutely no better than that. The chronograph is what keeps you within limits.
2) Max loads are somehow accurate. While this certainly can be the case, in all of my rifles, it is rarely so. Find what shoots accurately, and work with that.

Speed is what opens bullets, the partitions generally open reliably to around 1900fps. The TTS bullets are in the same neighborhood from my last email from them. But the safe bet is to call and ask.

So, is loading that speed a "good idea"? Depends upon what you want to do. I wouldn't run that hard, buy maybe you feel differently.

 

[Grumulkin]

First time posting here, long time lurking.
I just bought an X-Bolt medallion 30-06 22in barrel and its topped with a Vortex Viper 4-16x50 FFP...this is my dream gun btw and I plan on using it A LOT!!
I also am an avid reloader with .45ACP, 223, and 300BLK.

I have a few questions about three loads I want to develop, please bear with me...

-I want to load the 180 partition over IMR 4831 going over 2700 fps for elk/moose...is this a good idea? Will it expand at 500 yards? (yes I can make the shot if I need to on a wounded animal, where I hunt there are a lot of s#@ty hunters)
-Should I use the 150r TTSX or the 165 for hog, deer? Would the 165 be able to take moose out to the ranges of the 180 partition, if so could that could be a "do it all round"?
-Whats a good target round? I was leaning towards the TMK either 150ish or 160ish grains, I would like to be able to hit 800y with ease...most of the time though ill be shooting less than 500 ...for now.

Thanks in advance!

1. For accuracy in my 30/06 rifles I've had the best success with 165/168 grain bullets. The powder used does make a great deal of difference with different bullet weights. If I wanted to shoot 180 grain bullets I'd probably start by trying H414/Winchester 760 or IMR 4064.

2. Who knows if the bullet will expand at 500 to 800 yards; I'd say probably not much out of a 30/06. A 30 caliber hole through the chest will still be deadly. Solid round nonexpanding lead balls have taken many animals and for hunting the most dangerous animals solids are many times mandated.

3. Quite some time ago I abandoned the plan to have a deer load, a varmint load, etc. for each gun. I now usually work up one load per chambering and use it for everything. A 180 grain bullet would be good for anything from squirrels to bear.

4. I disagree with the current preocupation with chronographs to judge pressure. In my opinion you CAN use pressure signs to judge pressure in a strong bolt action rifle. If there are no pressure signs I don't really care if the pressure is 70,000 psi though I highly doubt there would be no signs at that pressure.

A test was once done on several "identical" rifles shooting the same load which resulted in velocity differences in up to 200 fps between the rifles. That indicates how erroneous velocity can be in judging pressure. Also consider the fact that as a load is increased the velocity may decrease as the higher pressures are reached.

The only way you are really going to know what the pressure is would be with a pressure transducer.

5. I agree that accuracy is more important than velocity.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Good all-around for the '06... Try a Berger 185 VLD backed by 7828 SSC and a Fed 210M primer.

I use this combo in my 26" 1:12 twist .30-06 AI, and it's dropping the hammer at around 3,000 fps MV.

 

[Jokostel]

1. For accuracy in my 30/06 rifles I've had the best success with 165/168 grain bullets. The powder used does make a great deal of difference with different bullet weights. If I wanted to shoot 180 grain bullets I'd probably start by trying H414/Winchester 760 or IMR 4064.

2. Who knows if the bullet will expand at 500 to 800 yards; I'd say probably not much out of a 30/06. A 30 caliber hole through the chest will still be deadly. Solid round nonexpanding lead balls have taken many animals and for hunting the most dangerous animals solids are many times mandated.

3. Quite some time ago I abandoned the plan to have a deer load, a varmint load, etc. for each gun. I now usually work up one load per chambering and use it for everything. A 180 grain bullet would be good for anything from squirrels to bear.

4. I disagree with the current preocupation with chronographs to judge pressure. In my opinion you CAN use pressure signs to judge pressure in a strong bolt action rifle. If there are no pressure signs I don't really care if the pressure is 70,000 psi though I highly doubt there would be no signs at that pressure.

A test was once done on several "identical" rifles shooting the same load which resulted in velocity differences in up to 200 fps between the rifles. That indicates how erroneous velocity can be in judging pressure. Also consider the fact that as a load is increased the velocity may decrease as the higher pressures are reached.

The only way you are really going to know what the pressure is would be with a pressure transducer.

5. I agree that accuracy is more important than velocity.

Most def. agree with 4&5...
Oddly enough, that happens to me in 300 Win Mag an AWFUL lot.
The one Ruger #1 I had turned velocities that would make a 300 rum blush.... yet the pressures were good, and case life was up to 6-7 cycles before it was toasted.... and the accuracy was ~ 3/4 moa.
Need to chrono my current 300 Win Mag once I get some more ammunition situated, just to confirm... She was running VERY well with my staple load... 84 Retumbo, WLRM and a 200 grain projectile... (usually speer hotcores) But in this case.... loaded with a WW Super casing and a 200 Grain ELD-X.
In a 26 in pipe, it's been tested to be about 3100-3150.

 

[gordonl]

I was looking at the G7 balistics calculater...
do you guys think I could get a 168gr (T)TSX over 2800fps pretty easily?
Then I would use the 168 TMK as my range practice round for fun LR work.

Also what powder is good for 168gr's?

 

[Jokostel]

Any of the 4350-4831 class propellants.I would try H4350/I4350/RL17/19/I4831/H4831SC in that order..... but, that's me.
gun)

 

[gordonl]

Awesome, ill look for some 4350

 

[TOM H]

I was looking at the G7 balistics calculater...
do you guys think I could get a 168gr (T)TSX over 2800fps pretty easily?
Then I would use the 168 TMK as my range practice round for fun LR work.

Also what powder is good for 168gr's?

I have couple 30-06 and I've had good luck with H-4350 from 150gr E-Tip to the 180gr Partition for deer/elk tags but I'm not shooting 22" barrels.

Accuracy first but your going to need some type chronograph for the ballistic tables and I'm not saying you can't get 2800fps with the 168gr.

 

[gordonl]

Thanks for the reply guys, keep it coming!

I know that my local place has H4350 in stock.
I was thinking a 180 NP for hogs and big game, 180 SMK for everything else but the 168 above 2800 looks like money for big game and hogs.
And the TMK/A-Max I have been seeing good results on deer type game from close up to way out