Need some help/advice please

[deerhunterjj]

I have been messing around with a 24in double star match 223 bull barrel. I'm wanting to run 69gr tmk bullets. I tried a lot of kids with benchmark. Got it to shoot 1in groups at 200 but once in awhile they would open up quit a bit. So I got upset and ordered a Rainer arms 24in match barrel built on a shilen match blank. It's a 1:8 twist also. I tried benchmark same story second vs. so I moved to H4895 better accuracy most of the time. Very high ES numbers though. Groups most of the time about .7 5 shot group at 200 which I could probally live with if it did it everytime out. But it don't once in awhile it will open up to 1.2-1.3 at 200 and that's not going to work. I just started trying RL15 and getting super low ES numbers 13fps between 5 shoots. But I'm getting 1.1 in and a tad smaller groups. More vertical then anything. Two in the same hole and one inch above them two there's two more in the same hole. And one beside either two shot group. I'm running 25.7 on my RL15 load at 2.265 coal and I'm getting a small dent ring around the bullet. The H4895 load is 23.8 2.265 coal. I ran 200 rds the last 2 days messing with this shilen barrel. Please give me an idea on what to do. I just loaded up some of the 23.8 loads and went down to 2.230,2.240,2.250,2.260 going to give them a shot in the morning. I think for long Range accuracy I'm going to have to go the RL 15 load maybe back it off a tenth or two? Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[FearNoWind]

I have been messing around with a 24in double star match 223 bull barrel.
So we're dealing with an AR?

I'm wanting to run 69gr tmk bullets.
You need a minimum 1:8 twist and your barrel should meet that spec.

Rainer arms 24in match barrel built on a shilen match blank. It's a 1:8 twist also.
Different barrel - same twist; no real change.

I tried benchmark ... I moved to H4895 better accuracy most of the time ... about .7 5 shot group at 200 ... once in awhile it will open up to 1.2-1.3 at 200.
... just started trying RL15 and getting super low ES ... 1.1 in and a tad smaller groups.
"Two in the same hole and one inch above them two there's two more in the same hole - one beside either two shot group."
Are we to understand that those groups are at 200 yards?

I'm running 25.7 on my RL15 load at 2.265 coal and I'm getting a small dent ring around the bullet.
Sounds like your using the wrong seating stem.

The H4895 load is 23.8 2.265 coal. I ran 200 rds the last 2 days messing with this shilen barrel. Please give me an idea on what to do. I just loaded up some of the 23.8 loads and went down to 2.230,2.240,2.250,2.260 going to give them a shot in the morning. I think for long Range accuracy I'm going to have to go the RL 15 load maybe back it off a tenth or two?
Careful not to go too far astray with the loads and mess up your bolt timing.

IMO, you're chasing ghosts using different powders and different loads without taking enough time for proper analysis with any of the loads under test.

If you're shooting 1.1 inch groups at 200 yards with an AR I'd suggest you call that good and run with it. The "spread" may very well be shooter influenced rather than load.

 

[Greyfox]

I have a DPMS, 24" bull, 1:9 twist upper that I use for 200/300 yard egg shoots. I'm very partial to Varget for the best accuracy with 69 gr SMK's and found the 1:9 barrels will stabilize them with no issues. I get the best results using Lapua brass, 69gr SMK, 25gr Varget, CCI Br4's. This is a pretty typical 200 yard group,

 

[rcoody]

.223 wilde chamber, 8 twist, shilen 20" Hbar.

Personally I have tried varget, RL15, N140 and several others

In my .223 AR I have found my best accuracy with either 24.7 or 25.2 grains of CFE223. 69 gr SMK, Lapua brass with a 0.003 shoulder bump, CCI BR4 primers. 2.255 COL. Mostly use the lower load to save on my brass. The other one is a little hot for long range only. Have gone all the way to 26 grains with great accuracy but hard on brass

 

[dsculley]

1.2" groups at 200 yds? This accuracy won't work? That is 0.57 MOA. What size target at what range are you trying to hit that this accuracy level won't work?

It has been my experience that when you have 2 rounds touching and then the third round is off, it is most likely either the shooter or a component issue, such as a loose scope, action screw, etc.

Personally, I would spend some more time behind the rifle testing/proving this load before I started changing things. I would also check everything on the weapon system just for peace of mind.


FWIW

 

[deerhunterjj]

1.2" groups at 200 yds? This accuracy won't work? That is 0.57 MOA. What size target at what range are you trying to hit that this accuracy level won't work?

It has been my experience that when you have 2 rounds touching and then the third round is off, it is most likely either the shooter or a component issue, such as a loose scope, action screw, etc.

Personally, I would spend some more time behind the rifle testing/proving this load before I started changing things. I would also check everything on the weapon system just for peace of mind.


FWIW

Yes the shilen barrel is a 1:8 also. Yes all groups were shot at 200yrds off bags. The max load of H4895 shot litterly a one hole group. But seating the bullets to 2.270 was all most impossible. Put a really good gouge around the bullet when seating. Very compressed load. 1in at 200 yea it's not to bad but I have had many rifles that shot better. And a couple ARs that shot under that as well. What I would like to find is under an inch every time I shoot. That's the rifle performing. If I throw one I can call it and know it was a flier. What vol would be a good vol for long range shooting with the 69gr tmk? I'm not worried about the wind. 6-800 yards is what I'm after. I will be working on the 77s once I get the 69s figured out. Didn't have a chance this morning to test the seating depth rds with the h4895. I think if I can get the ES figured out with the 4895 I will hit the goal I'm after. I'm using new fed 223 brass with 71/2 rem br primers.

 

[deerhunterjj]

Yes the shilen barrel is a 1:8 also. Yes all groups were shot at 200yrds off bags. The max load of H4895 shot litterly a one hole group. But seating the bullets to 2.270 was all most impossible. Put a really good gouge around the bullet when seating. Very compressed load. 1in at 200 yea it's not to bad but I have had many rifles that shot better. And a couple ARs that shot under that as well. What I would like to find is under an inch every time I shoot. That's the rifle performing. If I throw one I can call it and know it was a flier. What vol would be a good vol for long range shooting with the 69gr tmk? I'm not worried about the wind. 6-800 yards is what I'm after. I will be working on the 77s once I get the 69s figured out. Didn't have a chance this morning to test the seating depth rds with the h4895. I think if I can get the ES figured out with the 4895 I will hit the goal I'm after. I'm using new fed 223 brass with 71/2 rem br primers.

Here's my seating depth test these were at 100yrds wind was blowing good so moved up where I was out of the wind. Loaded up some more 23.8 at 2.230 to see if they will shoot the same. The vol spread was a lot better with the 2.230 then the rest of them. Only 18fps difference.

 

[deerhunterjj]

Here's my seating depth test these were at 100yrds wind was blowing good so moved up where I was out of the wind. Loaded up some more 23.8 at 2.230 to see if they will shoot the same. The vol spread was a lot better with the 2.230 then the rest of them. Only 18fps difference.

Here's my chrony numbers on the depth test. #4 is the 2.260

 

[deerhunterjj]

Here's my chrony numbers on the depth test. #4 is the 2.260

Just re tested the 2.230 load and another strike out didnt shoot near as good as the first round of them. That's the issue that gets me nothing staying really consistent.