BillLarson
Well-Known Member
you answered your own question....
Mandrel as last step?
- Thread starter Cornholeo
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Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
BOTH! I have change to tighter chamber size in my neck area. In my new rifles built or being built. that for me, and I use new brass to start with. Turn before going futher.
In my older rifles. I am going to and have turned necks for those rifles. I am thinking I wouldn't cut the thickness as much due to the chamber size there. In the pass I just cut to make sure my thickness was consistent. At that time I noted that my grouping tighten up some. Now all the reading I have done over the pass few years, I have changed my ways and cutting my brass to start with.
I will have to see how that comes out. A late friend of mind were able to achieve in most of our rifles in the 1/2" area @ 100yds. Only one that I recall was larger than that. I have a 22mag in a Ruger 77-22 mag model. I had a hard time getting to settle down. I got to about 1" @ 100yds. That rifle I had to take out over 1/8" out of the forearm to get it to group that tight. That was better than 3" to 4" groups to start with. I tried different ammo that there was some help. I think I went with CCI Max loads if I remember correctly.
In my older rifles. I am going to and have turned necks for those rifles. I am thinking I wouldn't cut the thickness as much due to the chamber size there. In the pass I just cut to make sure my thickness was consistent. At that time I noted that my grouping tighten up some. Now all the reading I have done over the pass few years, I have changed my ways and cutting my brass to start with.
I will have to see how that comes out. A late friend of mind were able to achieve in most of our rifles in the 1/2" area @ 100yds. Only one that I recall was larger than that. I have a 22mag in a Ruger 77-22 mag model. I had a hard time getting to settle down. I got to about 1" @ 100yds. That rifle I had to take out over 1/8" out of the forearm to get it to group that tight. That was better than 3" to 4" groups to start with. I tried different ammo that there was some help. I think I went with CCI Max loads if I remember correctly.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
The reason you turn is to reduce neck thickness variation. You tighten up the neck so you dont have excessive clearence. In the early days it thought thight neck clearence was good for accuracy. But we have found thats not true. So in most cases when we turn our necks and run tight neck chambers we still have as much clearence as a no turn chamber.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I'll go along with that. The only gain is the neck is cut even on all sides, or so I think. I know in days of old, in cutting necks. At times it was a surpise to me, just how far out of round the necks were or still are in other cases. I have only been cutting Peterson cases neck presently. I haven't noted any real change in cutting one side or the other. Back at that time I hadn't give it much though about neck tension either, nor was I using bushing dies at that time. Not sure if they even were around, and I know I wasn't looking for them either. I did think about it, but that as far I went. I do know that I step up on what I was using to cut necks for thickness. Finally ended up with a Forester to cut and bevel the cases in one time. Set up with a electric drill to turn the cutters too. The old hand crank was a lot of work to get anything done.
I turn all necks to achieve consistency in new brass. Right, wrong or indifferent it's one thing that I can take out of the equation. Yes it's a pain but it a step worth taking especially when you plan on getting ten plus firings out of it.
Alex,
It's always a treat to read your posts. As an Old BR shooter, it's interesting to see how practices have and are evolving. Good stuff!
It's always a treat to read your posts. As an Old BR shooter, it's interesting to see how practices have and are evolving. Good stuff!
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
This is because ANY clearance is sufficient for, and making no difference to, bullet release.
You do need enough clearance to mitigate chambered tensions from crooked ammo, but it feeds on itself.
It's easier to make straight loaded ammo with least clearance & sizing.
And runout doesn't matter until you've run out of clearance for it.
That works
So why would ammo be so crooked that bigger neck clearance alleviates the issue?
Excess body sizing, and poor case design for start..
The greater the sizing (up/down), the higher the loaded runout, and the greater the need for clearances (that led to this).
So going more & more clearance and sizing is just same old cycle (nothing new) that feeds on itself the same way.
It also works
What I'm suggesting is that people can make this work with any plan.
I only turn necks to reach reasonable thickness and neck clearance.
As far as runout, I measure every single case, culling out those with thickness variance, and I minimally size (everything).
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I make sure my case length are the same, and only bump the shoulder by 2th. I setup and anneal everytime.
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Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
The records are meant to be broken, prove us wrong. We have ran tight. And it has nothing to do with runout either.
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QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Ain't that the truth. Reamers are cheap compared to the time it takes to turn 1,000 pieces of brass.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I look at it this way. I have gone the extra mile in upgrading my reloading equipment. So the time to cut necks or case length isn't that much time any longer. Being able to cut almost any case size. From .224 to .338 with most steps in between. So I don't feel it's that big of a deal on set up and run 50 pieces of brass at one time. I've been told to do two cuts in thining my necks. So I have gotten two cutters to do that work. That way I don't have to adjust my cutters for the next cut. Just change out the system to the next cut. At the same time I have set up to cut my case length to the same length. Once the stop is set I don't change it for the next or different case I am going to use. I just change out the stop for the next stop that already set if setting up to set lengths for a different case. I have worked toward being consistence on all my cases to start with.
What I have read over the past few years here is that consistent create accuracy.
So in part I don't see if you are not cutting your necks for a consistence, you are missing a step in being consistent.
Other parts is having enough same lot of brass to do the job.
So on the long haul, I have even gotten a blank seating die to use my reamer to set to seat my bullets. That was a part went back and forth with myselve about what to do. Finally, have the reamer, I got a blank seating die. Having the smith use my reamer to set that blank up for sealing my bullets.
Starting my 2nd wildcat cartridge I have order out the blank seating die at the get go. I have the smith order out 2 new 700 Rem Long actions. One for the 257/280AI and one that I can set up to fireform my cartridges by changing out the barrels.
I will see if what I have done will achieve better grouping. I am looking to extend my yardage to 700 to 800 yards on P. dogs.
What I have read over the past few years here is that consistent create accuracy.
So in part I don't see if you are not cutting your necks for a consistence, you are missing a step in being consistent.
Other parts is having enough same lot of brass to do the job.
So on the long haul, I have even gotten a blank seating die to use my reamer to set to seat my bullets. That was a part went back and forth with myselve about what to do. Finally, have the reamer, I got a blank seating die. Having the smith use my reamer to set that blank up for sealing my bullets.
Starting my 2nd wildcat cartridge I have order out the blank seating die at the get go. I have the smith order out 2 new 700 Rem Long actions. One for the 257/280AI and one that I can set up to fireform my cartridges by changing out the barrels.
I will see if what I have done will achieve better grouping. I am looking to extend my yardage to 700 to 800 yards on P. dogs.
BillLarson
Well-Known Member
My buddy bought a bench neck turner that also bores the neck.....in 1 operation....
very expensive but a beautiful piece of machinery..........
competes and wins at World and National matches.... "F" class
also uses a Prometheus scale.....
very expensive but a beautiful piece of machinery..........
competes and wins at World and National matches.... "F" class
also uses a Prometheus scale.....
The ID-OD machine, which uses a collet to fixture off the body OD, turning the neck concentric to the body.
