G
Guest
Guest
ATH, How do you know if the sabot fails?
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G
Guest
Guest
Just read on another site that some accuracy problems (flyers) with muzzleloaders may come from the 209 primers having so much flame that they move the bullet a little before the powder starts to burn. Remington 209-4 primers (for the 410 shotgun) have about half the flame and are said to solve some of these accuracy problems. May be something to look into.
[ 12-11-2003: Message edited by: Harv ]
[ 12-11-2003: Message edited by: Harv ]
ATH
Well-Known Member
There are two basic symptoms of sabot failure. First, look at the gas sealing base of the fired sabot. If it is severely distorted, it probably blew through and greatly deteriorated your accuracy. Many times they will be very bulged out around the edges. Second, are all four petals there? If petals get ripped off, the sabot will not separate from the bullet in a consistent manner (ie if a petal rips the sabot may skew one direction and impact the bullet off-center).
Many people try to shoot their ML too fast in warm weather. Warm sabots fail more easily (at least I am told) so you want to keep the barrel cool.
As for the 209 primers, there is an extended section on this on the PRecision Rifle site I linked before. The guy there (Cecil Epp) is such a believer that he has a custom-modified gun that primes with .22 Hornet cases instead, and sells a modification for the T/C Encore to accomplish the same thing. Claims it tightened groups considerably. I'm a believer too from my experiences, but no such after-market mod available for my Traditions and I can't afford to upgrade.
Many people try to shoot their ML too fast in warm weather. Warm sabots fail more easily (at least I am told) so you want to keep the barrel cool.
As for the 209 primers, there is an extended section on this on the PRecision Rifle site I linked before. The guy there (Cecil Epp) is such a believer that he has a custom-modified gun that primes with .22 Hornet cases instead, and sells a modification for the T/C Encore to accomplish the same thing. Claims it tightened groups considerably. I'm a believer too from my experiences, but no such after-market mod available for my Traditions and I can't afford to upgrade.
weaverism
Well-Known Member
Now just in case this sounds stupid bare with me as I do not have an inline yet and know absolutely zero about them. I was wondering just for curiosity sake, what would happen if one were to take on of the sabots used to shoot .308 caliber bullets out of a .50BMG and use it in a .50 caliber muzzleloader? If they would stabilize a .30 caliber bullet, that would open up a bullet choice selection of huge proportions. I don't know what kind of twist rates are built in your inlines but I imagine a custom barrel could be built with a suitable twist. Could you use the .240 grain SMK with a b.c. of .711. That would be way higher than any muzzleloader bullet. They fly well at subsonic velocities out of my .300 whisper and I imagine they could be pushed quite fast out of an inline. What do you think? Am I all wet?
G
Guest
Guest
I have thought about this but don't think it will work. My understanding of how a muzzleloader sabot works is the base of the sabot is hollow and when the powder burns it expands the hollow base to fill the rifling. A 50/30 rifle sabot would probably be too large and very hard to push down the barrel when loading. If it would go down easy than it wouldn't spin when shot. If anyone has some of these sabots and would like to part with a few I would be happy to try them. Twist rates are 1 in 24 or slower so don't know if that will be fast enough.
G
Guest
Guest
Questions arent stupid. It's stupid not to ask.
ATH
Well-Known Member
Well, a BMG is not actually .500, it's a little bigger than that (.508 or .510?). Nevertheless, last year I got ahold of some sabots and used a file and drill to take them down to .500. Yes, without the soft gas seal base the sabot was tough to make fit down the barrel without making it under-sized. I used the shortest .308 spitzer I could find, poly tip, to maximize the chance I could get it stabilized with 1-28". I fired 5 at 20 yards at a 3' square piece of plywood. Only two hit, both completely sideways.
Gotta say something here about the labor you spent on that. Whatever twist is required to stabilize a bullet fired in an appropriate bore size will also be required in a sabot application assuming similar velocity. There's no way around that, no black magic from sabots. Your dedication and curiosity is noteworthy but the result of your experiment predictable.
In general terms I doubt any of the conventional jacketed spitzer or boat tail bullets can be stabilized in a sabot ML configuration. Their intended application is in rifles with twist rates 2-3 times faster than most ML's intended for conicals.
In general terms I doubt any of the conventional jacketed spitzer or boat tail bullets can be stabilized in a sabot ML configuration. Their intended application is in rifles with twist rates 2-3 times faster than most ML's intended for conicals.
ATH
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was not surprised, but I had the time and curiousity got the better of me. I ran the numbers and with that particular bullet they said no but closer than I thought it might be so I tried it...
