Long Range 'Lite'

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Wapi-T, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. Wapi-T

    Wapi-T Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Long Range \'Lite\'

    Hey, gentlemen.

    This forum discusses some BIG calibers for long range duty. I don't think I want a .338-416, a 408 Cheyenne, or a .50 BMG.

    I want to carry a 10# rifle on my back with a 26-28 inch barrel, and have some 1K capability.

    I have heard passing discussion of the 6.5-284, and have wondered about the .260 Remington and the possibility of a 6.5 WSM for long-range duty. My question is this: What sub-.30 caliber cartridge is, in your opinion, the best for long-range duty, and why? What is the big deal about the 6.5-284? Why is it so good?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. jhendri2

    jhendri2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    180
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    I assume you are also wanting a short action? If not the 7 STW, 7 Rem Mag, 7 Ultra, 7x300, 6.5x300, 6.5 Gibbs, 6.5/06 Imp are all very good, if you want to go to a long action.

    The 6.5 x 284 is popular, imho, due to the fact that the 6.5 bullets generally offer a very good BC for a smaller diam bullet. It also doesn't hurt that Daivd Tubb uses this caliber.

    There are a lot of sub 30 cal rounds that can be used for LR shooting. Check out the results page on Steve Shelp's page. It list the calibers used by all of the competitors, maybe this will give you more idea's.

    The biggest handicapp is going to be rifle weight, if you are talking about a rifle that weighs 10# total (loaded, scope and sling). The initial rifle will have to weigh apporx 8#'s naked. With a 26-28" barrel, it will have to be a very small diam, and this is not condusive to accuracy (do to barrel heat/disepation, stifness etc.)

    I am not saying it can't be done, just very difficult.

    I hope this helps.

    Jim
     
  3. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,071
    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    There are a few of them out there.6.5-300.The 7-300.My carry gun is a 9 pound 7mm STW with a 27" 9 twist Douglas barrel.I have shot that gun out to 1250 yard's.(at rock's)And I can say that It would not have any trouble taking a deer at 1000 yard's.The 6.5-284 from what I here is probably one of the most accurate round's on earth.I just like to have a little more down range energy
     
  4. LDHunter

    LDHunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    300
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Wapi-T,

    Your profile says that you're from Utah. I'm assuming that you want this rifle as a carry around gun for medium to large game hunting (mulies and elk).....

    I have a 30-378 Weatherby Mark V and consider it to be perfectly suited to the type of hunting that is encountered in the west.

    I've had it for 3 years now and have shot it very little because it's a horrible throat burner but it's a HUNTING RIFLE and I only shoot it about 60 rounds per year. It's probably only good to about 600 rounds before throat erosion starts degrading accuracy.

    I know that you were asking for sub 30 caliber recommendations but when you want to carry enough energy way out there.... 30 caliber is a great choice and IMO you'll have a hard time delivering enough accuracy with adequate energy with 6mm or 6.5mm at long ranges.

    btw... These rifles come with a very good factory muzzle brake that tames the recoil to quite manageable levels but is horribly loud and you absolutely should never, ever, shoot it without very good hearing protection.

    I compare the felt recoil with this rifle to my Remington Model 7 chambered in .308 (no brake)

    $bob$
     
  5. Wapi-T

    Wapi-T Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Thanks, LDHunter.

    This would be a rifle for game deer-sized and smaller, and for general target shooting out to 1K. I want a caliber that will give more barrel life than a .30-378 would. I have considered the big calibers with muzzlebrakes, but just don't want to go that route. I just had a muzzlebrake cut off of my .338 WM. I want this rifle to be compact, relatively lightweight, and VERY accurate, while giving me some good medium-long range capability.

    Do any of you know anybody who has developed and used a 6.5 WSM? I would be interested to know how it has performed for them.

    P.S. Where is Steve Shelp's webpage, anyway?
     
  6. Dan Conzo

    Dan Conzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    127
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    A good barrel about 1.200" to 1.175" at breach to .700" to .750" at the muzzle at 26" to 28" long, with a 2" to 2 1/4" wide forearm that is about 1 3/8" deep at the front end on a good action pillar bedded and a good light scope (B&L Elite, Leupold LR, etc) will come to about 12 lbs. I think Boyd Heaton and 338 Lapua are right-on about the calibers. The 7mm Wby and the much maligned 264 Win are also good with good chambers and no freebore. Also consider 8" twists for the 6.5s--the extra torque helps kill. The 6.5/300 WSM just might fill the bill, I don't know much about it.
     
  7. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Wapi-T

    Look into the 6.5/284.. will get you to 900+ yards with the 142 gr. SMK and lapua makes brass for it. Matter of fact I am SERIOUSLY considering it as we speak....
    very accurate form what lots and lots have said... carries speed and ft. lbs. very well and not a BIG recoil!!!!

    food for thought....
     
  8. Wapi-T

    Wapi-T Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    WyoJim-

    What are the technical differences between the 6.5/300 vs the .264 Win Mag? I assume they are built on the same parent case...
     
  9. Jim Mackey

    Jim Mackey Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Wapi-T, The parent case for the 6.5/300 is the 300 Weatherby. It holds considerably more powder than the .264 Winchester.
     
  10. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Wapi-T,

    Here's the gun I just ordered...

    6.5/284
    Hart 28" barrel
    8 twist, fluted #5 taper
    Win mod. 70 LA
    Jewel HVR trigger
    M40A1 McMillan stock ( woodland camo )

    Smith just had another guy who built one almost like this.( differnt Stock ) got 3100 fps with 140 SMK's says he shot a 9.5" group at 1K.. that works for me.....

    Mine should weigh about 12-14 lbs.. A light contour barrel should cut some weight for you. A rem action is lighter. If you pick another stock you can probobly get down to 10 lbs.

    food for thought....
     
  11. Jim Mackey

    Jim Mackey Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Wapi-T
    I have lived with 6.5X300's for 33 years and have 3 of them right now. As a bench type LR rifle by todays standards they are totally outclassed by the big 30's and 338's. They
    take a spotter with a lot of experience to spot the hits. Where a big gun causes a small
    eruption that most anybody can see, the 6.5 spotter will rely a lot on the bullet wash
    and then see a small impact. I'm talking past a thousand yards.
    Killing power on deer is adequate as far as I have killed them. Of which my longest one
    is 1400 yards. Deer was laying down. 3 shots about 200 yards short to sight in, click up
    to the deer, One shot close to get it up on its feet, next shot knocked it down, but it
    got back up, next shot was a miss, next shot put it down for good. Deer was dead within 20 feet of its bed, and it turned out the first hit would have handled the job but you can't take the chance.
    My longest kill of any thing is a skunk at 1640 yards. I didn't count the shots. Once I
    was on him or figured he was in the group so to speak, I just shot until he was unlucky.

    Elk is a different story for the 6.5X300. We got dam tired of elk shot behind the shoulder
    and dashing 50 to a hundred yards into some blowdown and making us a ton of work. So we started shooting them through the shoulder. The first one I shot through the shoulder was at 325 yards with a .264. There was no way to take a rest, so I had to shoot him offhand. Being the 1981 PA State Champion in Highpower Silhouette helped. I could hold well inside the shoulder, but my spotter said the shot went right over his back. I knew what had happened, because the hold had broke its pattern and went right out the top and went off, I had forced the gun to fire. The dummy never moved and my next hold settled on his shoulder, the gun went off and he went down like he was pole axed. The 140 grain Sierra went through both shoulders and was caught by
    the skin on the far side. I figured shooting through the shoulder I would limit the .264 to 500 yards, where I figured it could get through the near shoulder, the lungs and at least into the far shoulder.
    Based on this I figured with the 6.5 sporter I could stretch my kill yardage to 600. I made a one shot pole axe kill at 600 and the bullet passed clear through. So I raised my
    max distance to 700. The next one I shot was about 500 yards. Another pole axe kill, but the skin caught the bullet on the far side. Go Figure....

    Three of us shot my 6.5X300 at the matches at Williamsport in 1969, So it saw a lot of rounds. At around 1400 rounds it quit shooting good on 10 shot groups, but would still group well for 6 or 7 shots. In hindsight, maybe it had some copper fowling that if cleaned by todays standards would have prolonged it.
    I bought my first .264 in 1964 and used it for a carry gun until around 1990 when I made it into a 6.5X300 Saddle Gun. Thats almost 30 years of shooting and plinking with a caliber that is supposed to shoot out in a year.
    Last fall I sold my last .264 and began the search for a Rem 700 long action to build a 6.5 Gibbs or 6.5/06 improved. I think I can get within a hundred feet a second of my .264 and do it with a lot less powder.
    I don't think for a hunting gun the 6.5X284 has any advantage over the 6.5/06 and until recently good brass was impossible to find for it.
    Oh and for a little controversy, with the aid of molly coated bullets I have been hunting with a 24in. barreled .264 at 3200 fps and a 26in. 6.5X300 at 3400 fps....Jim Mackey
     
  12. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,529
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    I noticed that you chose a long action. Did you do that to accomodate long bullets?
    Seeing that you have a long action, is there a reason that you did not use the 30-06 or other long cartridge as the parent case?
    Just wondering.
     
  13. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    VH,

    Yup, I had the long action just laying around but I am using it so I can seat the bullets out far enough to touch the lands and still fit in the magazine. I didn't use the '06 parent cartridge because I wanted to stay away from fire forming and stuff. I have heard lotsa good stuff about the 6.5/284 and have really been itchin to get one so.. it kinda all came together last week....
     
  14. Wapi-T

    Wapi-T Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Re: Long Range \'Lite\'

    Sounds Sweet...

    4 more questions:

    1. Is this a Model 70 push-feed?
    2. Why the Model 70 action as opposed to others?
    3. If you don't mind me asking, how much would a setup like this set a guy back? I know, it's an indiscreet question, but I can't help myself.
    4. What scope will you top it with?

    BTW, saw my first .270 WSM cartridge in person Saturday. Winchester's advertising photos don't do it justice. That's one mean little pill. Lost river ballistic makes a .277 caliber 135 grain J-36 (BC .649). That might make an interesting long-range combo.