Licensing Needed To Assemble Long Range Rifles

[Jud96]

It has always been a dream of mine to open a gun shop and in the last couple years I have really gotten into the idea of building custom rifles. My Uncle is a gunsmith and has taught my cousin the ins and outs of rebarreling rifles. We have all put together rifles and I am going to learn how to run a lathe and do barrel work myself. We thought it would be cool to do simple builds for people and just to get our name out there and for a hobby. My only concern is what kind of licenses are needed if we rebarrel a rifle for a customer? Or if we build made to order rifles assembled from existing parts?

This is all just an idea right now so nothing is happening anytime soon. The only rifles that we have built are for ourselves. I really appreciate any help current rifle builders can offer me and anyone else who is knowledgeable on this topic. Thank you. gun)

 

[MudRunner2005]

Anything you plan to buy for resale that has a serial number on it (receivers), you will need an FFL. And if you plan on doing it for a living, under Obumu's new draconian gun laws he's planning on implementing, you will probably also need a business license. And probably a weapons manufacturing license/permit.

If you just do the gunsmith work and provide parts that are not serlialized (triggers barrels, stocks, etc...), and you require the customer to provide their own receiver, then you might can get by with just a manufacturing and business license, and could skip on the FFL.

I have thought about doing the same thing Jud. But being that I have already established debts, going about it would be a much trickier and tougher thing. Paying bills while going to machining or gunsmith school would be a very tough thing for me to do. It would be significantly easier for someone in your situation to get started into it. If that's what you want to do, go for it while you still can.

 

[Jud96]

Thanks for the reply Mud. I really would love to do this, but I worry the initial investment and paperwork will be overwhelming just for something fun and enjoyable that I'd like to do. It would be easier just to get an 01 FFL Dealers license, this would allow me to assemble rifles as long as the customer supplies the action. I feel like this could be a hassle for the customer though. I am going to look into this some more and get an idea how much it will cost.

 

[shortgrass]

Anything you plan to buy for resale that has a serial number on it (receivers), you will need an FFL. And if you plan on doing it for a living, under Obumu's new draconian gun laws he's planning on implementing, you will probably also need a business license. And probably a weapons manufacturing license/permit.

If you just do the gunsmith work and provide parts that are not serlialized (triggers barrels, stocks, etc...), and you require the customer to provide their own receiver, then you might can get by with just a manufacturing and business license, and could skip on the FFL.

You've got your very own google machine, MudRunner. I'd say you need to do a bit of 'research' about Federal Firearms law! I'd like to know about Obummers' "draconian gun laws", too. Ain't noting changed. Just more 'smoke and mirrors'.

 

[bigngreen]

Mudrunner, that is very poor advice!!!!

 

[Dosh]

Jud, besides licensing perhaps check out some good liability insurance. In today's world, litigation is the first move with many greedy individuals.

 

[just country]

morning, mud was advising thru his own experiences. things change thru time.

the advice given is vast and should b well taken

all depends on state and fed. laws. read and heed. a FFL owner in ur state can

give advice.

in tx as long as the serialed parts r bought thru a FFL, u can assemble ur own,

except a fully auto weapon.lightbulbgun)

 

[MudRunner2005]

You've got your very own google machine, MudRunner. I'd say you need to do a bit of 'research' about Federal Firearms law! I'd like to know about Obummers' "draconian gun laws", too. Ain't noting changed. Just more 'smoke and mirrors'.

No, I didn't google anything I posted in this thread. I'm pretty sure anyone will need an FFL to buy and sell serialized weapons parts as part of their business, and you will also need a city, county, or state business license (like all legit businesses), and you might also need a firearms manufacturing license...

And yes, Obama was talking about redefining the gun laws to make things very vague as to what and how many weapons transactions an individual makes per year that may or may not qualify them as a seller requiring a dealer's license and/or FFL.

I would NEVER intentionally give someone poor advice...EVER.

morning, mud was advising thru his own experiences. things change thru time.

the advice given is vast and should b well taken

all depends on state and fed. laws. read and heed. a FFL owner in ur state can

give advice.

in tx as long as the serialed parts r bought thru a FFL, u can assemble ur own,

except a fully auto weapon.lightbulbgun)

Thank you JC. That is exactly what I was saying.

 

[TK 1985]

I just received my FFL in the mail today. There is no "getting by". If you want to be "engaged in the business" as in, advertise you're in the business, or profit from working on people's firearms, you NEED your FFL, even if they are providing the serialized parts.
I'm just Cerakoting firearms for now and an FFL is REQUIRED for that. I would not mess with or try to get around the Feds.
It's true they do not have much manpower for audits and investigations in the ATF, but if they do catch on to what you're doing without your FFL, now you have felony charges and can never work on, or even own guns, ever again.

 

[MudRunner2005]

They require you to have an FFL to Cerakote firearms? I believe you, but that seems ridiculous. You're not even buying and selling...That's crazy.

The only reason I mentioned not bothering with it was based on the logic of him not buying and selling the receivers. Logically, I just don't see how it's any different than someone building an AR in their garage...

I am not a gunsmith, nor am I a machinist. I have a gunsmith that I take my rifles to. So I don't have any experience with buying licenses. I was just trying to be helpful based on logic and common sense, and from discussing this same stuff with gunsmiths and other folks over the years. But I forgot that we're talking about dealing with the federal gov't, and those things don't typically apply to their methods. I guess if I ever do go about it, I'll just go ahead and get my FFL, too.

 

[shortgrass]

Even if you are 'building', using a customer supplied receiver, you will need a minimum of a 01 Dealers License. That's where you went wrong! The licensing laws are about "intent". If your "intend" is to make a profit and you pursue that "intent" you need to be licensed accordingly. Business license, manufacturing license, that's a state/local thing and must be adheared to as well a zoning regulations for your community before ATFE will issue a FFL. When the customer supplies the serial numbered part of a 'build', the law considers him (the customer) to be the manufacture. No further consiquences if for personal use. If you, as the builder/gunsmith (and I use the noun "gunsmith" loosely) supply the action, you (or your company) is considered to be the manufacture which requires a 07 Manufactures FFL. Doesn't matter if the "gunsmith" bought a 700 off of GunBroker to tear down and use the action, or if he uses a new custom action that is the property of his shop. His shop is then the manufacture, requiring all those things the holder of a 07 Manufacturing FFL has to do to stay within the confines of federal law. Obummer is blowin' and goin'. He can issue executive orders, but he cannot make new law. Executive orders pertain to how existing law is enforced by the Federal agency whos duty it is to enforce those Federal laws already on the books. Congress won't approppriate any more money to the Justice Dept. (ATFE is under the Justice dept.) than it already has. It takes more money to the Justice Dept. (ATFE) to make Obummers' wishes come true. "Gunsmithing" as a business, be it building rifles using a customer supplied receiver or cleaning .22s, requires Federal licensing. As I stated earlier in the post, local ordnances must be followed before ATFE will issue a FFL. The advice you gave could land a guy before a Federal Judge! This info is all easily found on the ATFE web site.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Even if you are 'building', using a customer supplied receiver, you will need a minimum of a 01 Dealers License. That's where you went wrong! The licensing laws are about "intent". If your "intend" is to make a profit and you pursue that "intent" you need to be licensed accordingly. Business license, manufacturing license, that's a state/local thing and must be adheared to as well a zoning regulations for your community before ATFE will issue a FFL. When the customer supplies the serial numbered part of a 'build', the law considers him (the customer) to be the manufacture. No further consiquences if for personal use. If you, as the builder/gunsmith (and I use the noun "gunsmith" loosely) supply the action, you (or your company) is considered to be the manufacture which requires a 07 Manufactures FFL. Doesn't matter if the "gunsmith" bought a 700 off of GunBroker to tear down and use the action, or if he uses a new custom action that is the property of his shop. His shop is then the manufacture, requiring all those things the holder of a 07 Manufacturing FFL has to do to stay within the confines of federal law. Obummer is blowin' and goin'. He can issue executive orders, but he cannot make new law. Executive orders pertain to how existing law is enforced by the Federal agency whos duty it is to enforce those Federal laws already on the books. Congress won't approppriate any more money to the Justice Dept. (ATFE is under the Justice dept.) than it already has. It takes more money to the Justice Dept. (ATFE) to make Obummers' wishes come true. "Gunsmithing" as a business, be it building rifles using a customer supplied receiver or cleaning .22s, requires Federal licensing. As I stated earlier in the post, local ordnances must be followed before ATFE will issue a FFL. The advice you gave could land a guy before a Federal Judge! This info is all easily found on the ATFE web site.

See, this is very helpful, instead of just telling me I'm wrong. Thanks for the info. Now I know. I would never intentionally give false or bad info. The last thing I want to do is get someone, or myself, in any trouble. My apologies to everyone for the incorrect info.

 

[shortgrass]

They require you to have an FFL to Cerakote firearms? I believe you, but that seems ridiculous. You're not even buying and selling...That's crazy.

The only reason I mentioned not bothering with it was based on the logic of him not buying and selling the receivers. Logically, I just don't see how it's any different than someone building an AR in their garage...

I am not a gunsmith, nor am I a machinist. I have a gunsmith that I take my rifles to. So I don't have any experience with buying licenses. I was just trying to be helpful based on logic and common sense, and from discussing this same stuff with gunsmiths and other folks over the years. But I forgot that we're talking about dealing with the federal gov't, and those things don't typically apply to their methods. I guess if I ever do go about it, I'll just go ahead and get my FFL, too.

The Feds have been in everyones business for a very long time! You just don't seem to know that! And it's not just the firearms related business,,, it's in most any business you can think of! There seems to be a lot of "mystery" about Federal Firearms law. There shouldn't be. Their web site is quit informative.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The Feds have been in everyones business for a very long time! You just don't seem to know that! And it's not just the firearms related business,,, it's in most any business you can think of! There seems to be a lot of "mystery" about Federal Firearms law. There shouldn't be. Their web site is quit informative.

Guess I'll go read-up... It's been a lot of years since I did, I guess my memory needs a jog. We own a small steel business and the gov't is in our ***** in just about everything we do. It's quite irritating, so I do understand that aspect of it.

Thanks again for the info. Also, I don't try to be combative on purpose, sometimes it just comes out that way.