Kowa 66 vs Razor 65 vs...

[catorres1]

I am starting to do research on spotting scopes. I plan to hunt with it, including packing it, so I think a 65mm is probably the way to go. I'd like an 85ish for it's low light performance, but the weight is probably just too much.

Also, I wear glasses, but I want more power than the Long Eye Relief eye pieces out there, so will be going with the zooms.

Budget wise, I am not in the Swarovski tax bracket. So I am looking at the Razor 65 and the Kowa 664 Prominar (I want a straight eye piece). But no one near me has either of these scopes, so it's going to be sight unseen for me.

I know that the Vortex warranty is the best, and that's a huge bonus, no doubt. I have also been told by one source that has both scopes that the Kowa is absolutely the best between these two, and that it is even brighter and clearer than the Razor 85. The only concern on his part was the eye relief on the Kowa. Its 2-3mm or so less than then Razor. But otherwise, he strongly recommended the Kowa as the best choice.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? The Kowa has 16.5 mm of eye relief according to the manufacturer, is this generally enough?

How about the comparison between these two scopes for resolution, brightness and low light performance?

And then there is durability/warranty. I am confident the Vortex will be tough, or atleast be fixed if it is not. How does the Kowa stand up, and how do they treat folks with repair issues?

There are lots of reviews on the bigger scopes from both manufacturers, but not so many on the smaller, so anyone with experience with these (or other like priced alternatives), I'd love to hear it.

Thanks!

 

[Bravo 4]

I had this same dilemma two years back. I looked through the Vortex and it is a good spotter. I compared it to a Leupold Mk4, Nikon XL-II, Baush and Lomb, Swarovski and Swarovski HD. It was more on the lines of glass quality of the MK4; pretty good, not great like the Swaro's. I called and spoke with a sponsor of this site and he is the one that recommended the Kowa Prominar. That's what I got, took it to work and compared it to the others. I would say it stacked up to the Swarovski non HD. The HD gave an ever so slight edge. Of course there is nothing scientific about my comparison. It was a clear sunny day on a range that goes out to 1200 meters. Pretty much what I was doing was watching turkey heads bob in and out of the thigh high grass along the far edge. I have been happy with my purchase.

 

[catorres1]

Thanks for the reply!

Which Kowa did you buy? Was it the 664/663? And how did you think it compared to the Razor (was it the same size?).

I assume the Swaro's were also the same size, how did you feel about the eye relief and how has it worked for you in low light?

Thanks!

 

[Bravo 4]

I have the 664 (straight).
Honestly I cannot remember what differences I observed in the eye relief. It's been two years and as soon as I looked through them the Kowa won and the Razor got put aside (if memory serves me right it was an angled 85mm model). What I remember was having the Kowa and the two Swaro's next two each other, don't remember there being any dimensional differences. I know to my eyes, and a couple of trained spotters that are behind the Swaro's for hours on end, there wasn't any difference until you compared it to the HD's. Even then it was very hard to see a teeny tiny difference (if any at all).
Now with the low light capability, you are gonna sacrifice some performance with the smaller objective lens. However I believe (and this is just my opinion) I would take the better glass in the Kowa 660 series over the larger 85 Razor, even if I didn't have to carry them anywhere.
Don't get me wrong, the Razor is a good product (even for the money) and if you didn't stick it next to a higher end scope you would never be disappointed. And I think I could have saved a little going with it over the Kowa, but the dealer was pretty convincing and basically said he would guarantee my satisfaction sight unseen. It was in my pack elk hunting the next week in Colorado and where a lesser spotter my buddy was carrying could spot a bull elk well over a mile out I was counting points. Another good thing about a quality spotter is less eye fatigue.

 

[catorres1]

Thanks, this is great feedback! I wonder if we talked to the same sponsor. He was pretty enthusiastic about the Kowa. He stocks and likes the Razor products, but really like the Kowa better.

I did find one review of the Kowa 66 vs a Swaro 65 HD if I remember correctly. That author felt they were very close....Swaro won on some points, Kowa on others.

But overall, it sounds like it's basically a wash between these two. The razor is just a step, not a big step, but a step behind. At least optically. That's what I am guessing from the reads so far.

So it looks like so far, what I need to do is get behind a Kowa, any of them that use the 20-60 eyepiece, and check eye relief/eyebox etc.

If I can do that, than it's likely settled. Not that I won't be happy with the Razor, but the cost is so close, that it would be nice to have the best in my pricerange.

Thanks your help and feedback!