Killing Elk out to 1000 yards with a 300 WM

[mercerbear]

My question is what range finder do you use that will give you a range at that distance?

I use a Sig Kilo 3000. It ranges really well out to 2500 yards or so.

 

[mercerbear]

You have proven my point. Hunting game with target bullets is reprehensible and irresponsible. The only "game" shot with target bullets is humans by snipers.

I used to think that too.

There is so much real world evidence by guys like Broz and others to the contrary though.

 

[Wedgy]

We celebrate and walk up to begin dressing him out.

When I get 10 feet from him, he gets up and runs off!

That must have been quite the surprise, good thing it wasn't a bear.
Congratulations ! But now you're addicted to elk hunting.

 

[mercerbear]

That must have been quite the surprise, good thing it wasn't a bear.
Congratulations ! But now you're addicted to elk hunting.

Man, I really am.

I have been hunting whitetail on the east coast my whole life.

After experiencing the "Western Style" spot and stalk hunting, it's amazing.

I signed up for the tag service with Epic Outdoors and will work on drawing more tags.

 

[William W.]

I used to think that too.

There is so much real world evidence by guys like Broz and others to the contrary though.

Well, unless the bullet manufacturers just want to sell more bullets, they would certainly have far more "real world" experience than the collective experience of those in this group put together. Regardless of bullet, a heart shot with virtually any bullet will kill; I believe that Capstick referenced a native's heart shot of an elephant with a 22. However, when the shot placement is not perfect, it would seem that the proven expansion performance built into a bona-fide hunting bullet would make the difference between a kill and a lost, wounded animal. Ego-centric confidence in making great shots is a poor second to the suffering of a wounded animal.

Even great hunting bullets have issues. I am just now replacing 160 Accubonds, driven at 3000fps (muzzle) from a 7mm with Berger 180 hunting bullets when the heart of a close-range deer was holed and not shredded like what happened with a 175 Accubond from a 308 at 2600fps (muzzle).

 

[mercerbear]

Well, unless the bullet manufacturers just want to sell more bullets, they would certainly have far more "real world" experience than the collective experience of those in this group put together. Regardless of bullet, a heart shot with virtually any bullet will kill; I believe that Capstick referenced a native's heart shot of an elephant with a 22. However, when the shot placement is not perfect, it would seem that the proven expansion performance built into a bona-fide hunting bullet would make the difference between a kill and a lost, wounded animal. Ego-centric confidence in making great shots is a poor second to the suffering of a wounded animal.

Even great hunting bullets have issues. I am just now replacing 160 Accubonds, driven at 3000fps (muzzle) from a 7mm with Berger 180 hunting bullets when the heart of a close-range deer was holed and not shredded like what happened with a 175 Accubond from a 308 at 2600fps (muzzle).

Freedom of choice and thought make this country great

 

[Wedgy]

Well, unless the bullet manufacturers just want to sell more bullets, they would certainly have far more "real world" experience than the collective experience of those in this group put together.

Not the case, Broz has killed ~60 elk a year with the 215 Berger and has documented its effectiveness in case after case. A few years ago they ran it side by side with the 7mm 195 grain(7mm-300WM) and ended up putting the 195 hunting bullet on the shelf because the 215 was that much better.
Berger target bullets have a thicker jacket, that's the difference from their hunting bullets. A mono has no jacket so would that lead you to believe they are not suitable for hunting ?

 

[trhall]

I drew my first elk tag ever this year and hunted for 3 days out in E Oregon.

On the third day, I ended up getting a shot at 325 yards on a 5 point bull.

I hit him high shoulder with a 200 grain Terminal Ascent in 300WM and he folded on the spot.

We celebrate and walk up to begin dressing him out.

When I get 10 feet from him, he gets up and runs off!

I ran 10 yards to my pack, grabbed my rifle and we took off after him.

He stopped after 50 yards and I was able to hit him in the crease and fold him up for good before he got too far downhill.

I hit the exact void under the spine that you're talking about with my first shot.

Congrats on your elk and thank you for sharing an honest story. That same scenario has happened to many people with that shot. I also think sometimes people would attribute a scenario like that to a bullet failure.

 

[mercerbear]

Not the case, Broz has killed ~60 elk a year with the 215 Berger and has documented its effectiveness in case after case. A few years ago they ran it side by side with the 7mm 195 grain(7mm-300WM) and ended up putting the 195 hunting bullet on the shelf because the 215 was that

Congrats on your elk and thank you for sharing an honest story. That same scenario has happened to many people with that shot. I also think sometimes people would attribute a scenario like that to a bullet failure.

The Terminal Ascents did well, from what I could tell.

Controlled expansion on both shots.

 

[trhall]

There are

Not the case, Broz has killed ~60 elk a year with the 215 Berger and has documented its effectiveness in case after case. A few years ago they ran it side by side with the 7mm 195 grain(7mm-300WM) and ended up putting the 195 hunting bullet on the shelf because the 215 was that much better.
Berger target bullets have a thicker jacket, that's the difference from their hunting bullets. A mono has no jacket so would that lead you to believe they are not suitable for hunting ?

many reasons why a bullet manufacturer might label a bullet for target only and almost none of those have anything to do with the fact that they have shot allot of game with them and came to that determination.

 

[trhall]

The Terminal Ascents did well, from what I could tell.

Controlled expansion on both shots.

After I read your response I realized I didn't make myself clear. I meant that I think in a scenario like that people sometimes attribute that to bullet failure when that is not really what the root cause of the issue was.

 

[mercerbear]

After I read your response I realized I didn't make myself clear. I meant that I think in a scenario like that people sometimes attribute that to bullet failure when that is not really what the root cause of the issue was.

Gotcha. Yeah, the bullets did just fine.

To throw in a little additional experience with the Terminal Ascent bullet, I shot 3 whitetails this season from 15 feet to 30 yards with the 175 grain from my 30-06.

All of those bullets passed through and left golf ball sized holes.

No over expansion even at very close range.

 

[Axl]

Well, unless the bullet manufacturers just want to sell more bullets, they would certainly have far more "real world" experience than the collective experience of those in this group put together. Regardless of bullet, a heart shot with virtually any bullet will kill; I believe that Capstick referenced a native's heart shot of an elephant with a 22. However, when the shot placement is not perfect, it would seem that the proven expansion performance built into a bona-fide hunting bullet would make the difference between a kill and a lost, wounded animal. Ego-centric confidence in making great shots is a poor second to the suffering of a wounded animal.

Even great hunting bullets have issues. I am just now replacing 160 Accubonds, driven at 3000fps (muzzle) from a 7mm with Berger 180 hunting bullets when the heart of a close-range deer was holed and not shredded like what happened with a 175 Accubond from a 308 at 2600fps (muzzle).

As far as what the manufacturers "know": According to Berger they changed the name on the box to "hunting" from "match" AFTER customers had used the match with great results on game. The .284 Berger 180 Hunting bullet is an excellent choice, which I have seen used successfully many times. The .308 215 Hybrid Target works exactly the same if not better. There is no such thing as a " bona-fide" hunting bullet- they are not magic it's a piece of lead covered copper. Some work better than others use whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

History of the Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

The story of the Berger Hunting VLD is a story of discovery rather than design. The VLD bullet design was created by Ballistician Bill Davis during a project that also involved Dr. Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell of PPC fame. Bill’s goal was to produce a bullet design that performed better in...

bergerbullets.com

 

[MagnumManiac]

In post#28 there is a pic of an all copper bullet that failed to expand properly.
Unfortunately for me, I had this occur with Berger .338" 300gr OTM out of my 338-416 Rigby 4 times. This cartridge pushes them close to 3400fps at the muzzle in it's 32" barrel. These weren't Elk, but Sambar deer, all 4 were stags and at least 300kg on the hoof, all shots were between 800 and 950 mtrs. I am perplexed by this, as my Edge never had an issue at the same ranges with same bullets.
I now run a custom turned solid brass bullet that is similar to a Hammer.
Is there a reason unknown to me that causes a bullet to fail when the impact velocity is higher than bullets that didn't fail?


Cheers.