Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is true for every match bullet and I'm not suggesting it is. But perhaps, some of these "match" bullets that were "only designed for punching paper" tend to end up having **** good terminal ballistics. It's it said that's what started Bergers hunting line? People were happy with their consistency from the bench so they started hunting with them. Some slight changes were made to help them be more reliable and Berger started a hunting line.
I hunted with the Target VLD for years and years before the HVLD bullets (orange box) came into the scene. If there's any difference in performance, I can't tell. They are designed to enter a few inches and open up. This can go from fragment if hitting bone to just mushrooming if only traveling thru flesh. I've never recovered a one piece Berger bullet from an animal.
 
Same with a hunting bullet. It's called shooter error.
That's why I shoot a bullet that gives me a margin of error and performs the same everytime with good terminal performance . That bullets that has done that best at the present time is the Hammer bullet in the past I used Barnes , Nosler partitions and accubonds I never had a animal that ran I couldn't recover . I won't be going on a 20,000 dollar elk hunt with a match bullet. If the guide tell you , if you wound him and you can't find him he is still your Elk what bullet would you have full confidence in ? A bullet intended for good terminal performance or a match bullet?
 
Unfortunately that too frequently provides disastrous results as many of us have learned over the years.

Who knows, maybe a corvette will eventually win a hill climbing event too.

People are free to make those decisions themselves but I won't encourage them to do so having learned the hard way myself.
 
That's why I shoot a bullet that gives me a margin of error and performs the same everytime with good terminal performance . That bullets that has done that best at the present time is the Hammer bullet in the past I used Barnes , Nosler partitions and accubonds I never had a animal that ran I couldn't recover . I won't be going on a 20,000 dollar elk hunt with a match bullet. If the guide tell you , if you wound him and you can't find him he is still your Elk what bullet would you have full confidence in ? A bullet intended for good terminal performance or a match bullet?
Well I wouldn't hunt elk with a true match bullet. I've killed elk with Nosler Partitions simply because those I killed were inside 500 yards. I'd use match dimensional, hunting designed bullets for long range Elk or bigger animals. For deer size game, I see zero reason to use a traditional hunting bullet in most cases (my hunting style) outside the 300/400 yard range. I've used Amax bullets for deer in all my LR shooting with zero taking one step from impact. Shots are from 400-900 yards. For any hunt that bigger animals are the target, I'd more often than not use a cup and core or bonded type bullet. Too great of a chance hitting bigger bones and having poor bullet Performance on bigger animals than deer.
 
I'm not sure what all the hub bub is about the topic. Here's an article by John Barsness written back in 2007. I trust his results, and the results of many others who take game every year with Berger bullets. https://www.bergerbullets.com/articles/john-barsness-berger-bullets.pdf
The link worked for me! I just read it. I have had the same results they have had. Granted my test animals are not in the 200's like they had in a season but this last season I harvested 2 elk, and 3 deer with them and was very impressed with the results I got. I do not have enough animals harvested to decide if I like them or not yet but so far they are 6-0 with zero tracking. (I shot an antelope doe two season ago with them is how I got to 6). Until they fail me I will keep using them. I check all the tips and make sure they are open down to the lead. If they aren't they get put into a target/practice box of ammo and then I use the open tips for hunting. I don't know if it makes a difference but Jeff Brozovich does it and he has a substantial track record for kills with bergers and if he says he does it I am going to do it as well. Thanks for the link! Good read!
 
The link worked for me! I just read it. I have had the same results they have had. Granted my test animals are not in the 200's like they had in a season but this last season I harvested 2 elk, and 3 deer with them and was very impressed with the results I got. I do not have enough animals harvested to decide if I like them or not yet but so far they are 6-0 with zero tracking. (I shot an antelope doe two season ago with them is how I got to 6). Until they fail me I will keep using them. I check all the tips and make sure they are open down to the lead. If they aren't they get put into a target/practice box of ammo and then I use the open tips for hunting. I don't know if it makes a difference but Jeff Brozovich does it and he has a substantial track record for kills with bergers and if he says he does it I am going to do it as well. Thanks for the link! Good read!
Yeah I follow what Broz, FURMAN, and Lance says. Plus there are a lot of guys on here that have had success with them. Like you said they have a substantial track record.
 
Well I wouldn't hunt elk with a true match bullet. I've killed elk with Nosler Partitions simply because those I killed were inside 500 yards. I'd use match dimensional, hunting designed bullets for long range Elk or bigger animals. For deer size game, I see zero reason to use a traditional hunting bullet in most cases (my hunting style) outside the 300/400 yard range. I've used Amax bullets for deer in all my LR shooting with zero taking one step from impact. Shots are from 400-900 yards. For any hunt that bigger animals are the target, I'd more often than not use a cup and core or bonded type bullet. Too great of a chance hitting bigger bones and having poor bullet Performance on bigger animals than deer.
If you're disciplined enough to limit yourself only to low velocity impacts like that the thin skinned highly frangible bullets will perform pretty well consistently. The problem is when that big buck or bull you've been dreaming of steps out at closer ranges where those bullets become explosive and will frequently fail to penetrate before violently fragmenting.

The SST is a decent enough bullet of that type design but even at 300yds shooting 180's out of the 300wm the exit wounds were the size of my fist and there was so much meat loss from blood shot I had to quit using them.

Unfortunately there's no magic bullet that gives us ideal performance no matter the impact velocity.
 
I don't think you've done that. The discussion of Match vs Hunting bullets has always been personal and heated discussion is imminent in most cases. This one is not heated. I respect everyone's opinion and learn alot from many threads on this site. I just hope those that haven't used a match bullet for harvesting a deer with will consider trying it before calling it unethical just because it's labeled "Match" bullet. I respect those that have tried them with poor results and warn against there use. That result has been 180° opposite mine. People should do the work themselves before bashing them a hunting bullets. It wasn't until I started shooting ground hogs with the 6.5 Amax bullets before I realized they perform pretty good on flesh. Shooting some very large ground hogs with great bullet performance made me try them on a doe hunt. Been using them ever since on deer hunts where shot placement is easy. I do use an assortment of hunting bullets designated for various shot placement where the bullet needs to stay together.
I've used some of the Sierra match king, Different Hornady Target bullets, Cor-Bon Lapua Scenar, Shot placement I feel is the most important IMO. I shot all these bullet at a steel plate and sand at 100 yards 600 yards, 1200 yards from my Custom 260 Rem. They were in the 120ish grain to the 140 ish grain. No of them mushroomed at all. At 100 yards they all just fell apart except the Cor-Bon. The thin outer layer that was wrapped around the core just shredded. The core didn't do anything. You can tell it hit something solid but I wouldn't call it a mushroom. The only one I would consider using for a hunting bullet would be the Cot-Bon Lapua Scenar. It was the 123 grain. I shot all these bullets at a pile of sand in Brawley California as well. After my testing, I did harvest a doe at 90ish yards in Cisco Texas. She did not even flinch. I was telling myself there is no way I missed that shot. My friend and I found her about 3 hrs later. The grass was about 3 feet tall. We lost her in the trees and saw a deer running off about 800 plus's yards away. We thought that was here. It wasn't. We found her about 40 yards from where I shot her. It was a clean heart shot. The heart was disintegrated. There was no trace of the bullet. I'll see if I can find those pics of that doe and the impact. I'll post them for you.
I don't think you've done that. The discussion of Match vs Hunting bullets has always been personal and heated discussion is imminent in most cases. This one is not heated. I respect everyone's opinion and learn alot from many threads on this site. I just hope those that haven't used a match bullet for harvesting a deer with will consider trying it before calling it unethical just because it's labeled "Match" bullet. I respect those that have tried them with poor results and warn against there use. That result has been 180° opposite mine. People should do the work themselves before bashing them a hunting bullets. It wasn't until I started shooting ground hogs with the 6.5 Amax bullets before I realized they perform pretty good on flesh. Shooting some very large ground hogs with great bullet performance made me try them on a doe hunt. Been using them ever since on deer hunts where shot placement is easy. I do use an assortment of hunting bullets designated for various shot placement where the bullet needs to stay together.
 
Here is those pics of the doe I shot with the Cor-Bon 123 grain Scenar from my custom 260 Rem. I believe this was at 90ish yards.
 

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I've used some of the Sierra match king, Different Hornady Target bullets, Cor-Bon Lapua Scenar, Shot placement I feel is the most important IMO. I shot all these bullet at a steel plate and sand at 100 yards 600 yards, 1200 yards from my Custom 260 Rem. They were in the 120ish grain to the 140 ish grain. No of them mushroomed at all. At 100 yards they all just fell apart except the Cor-Bon. The thin outer layer that was wrapped around the core just shredded. The core didn't do anything. You can tell it hit something solid but I wouldn't call it a mushroom. The only one I would consider using for a hunting bullet would be the Cot-Bon Lapua Scenar. It was the 123 grain. I shot all these bullets at a pile of sand in Brawley California as well. After my testing, I did harvest a doe at 90ish yards in Cisco Texas. She did not even flinch. I was telling myself there is no way I missed that shot. My friend and I found her about 3 hrs later. The grass was about 3 feet tall. We lost her in the trees and saw a deer running off about 800 plus's yards away. We thought that was here. It wasn't. We found her about 40 yards from where I shot her. It was a clean heart shot. The heart was disintegrated. There was no trace of the bullet. I'll see if I can find those pics of that doe and the impact. I'll post them for you.
Yep that's been my experience also for the most part. It's rare when I get a good bullet recovered.
 
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