Is an ELD-M basically just a tipped berger?

[VLD Pilot]

In reality, not much meat is wasted if it's weighed. Mostly ugly. Most don't shoot for the shoulder directly but it happens. Meat loss is the greatest in the shoulder or and frontal area. Rib cage shots (which are my most common shot) do not waste meat unless rib meat is big on anyone's recipe list. I've crowded the shoulder from shot placement being a bit off but my biggest concern is that the animal goes down fast. 2-3 lbs of meat loss is minor and that's really all we're talking about.

 

[Priley]

In reality, not much meat is wasted if it's weighed. Mostly ugly. Most don't shoot for the shoulder directly but it happens. Meat loss is the greatest in the shoulder or and frontal area. Rib cage shots (which are my most common shot) do not waste meat unless rib meat is big on anyone's recipe list. I've crowded the shoulder from shot placement being a bit off but my biggest concern is that the animal goes down fast. 2-3 lbs of meat loss is minor and that's really all we're talking about.

Agreed.. The bloodshot always looks worse then it really is...

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

I saw a comparison earlier on in this thread WRT law enforcement sniper ammunition use. As this is a hunting forum I found that inappropriate. Much like military Geneva Convention ammunition restrictions, law enforcement agencies follows similar ethical and legal restrictions. We're not trying to stop a terrorist threat that may detonate an IED or stop a violent perpetrator in the commission of a violent crime. We're trying to ethically harvest a noble game animal that should be respected and cherished. M stands for Match. Reading, it's fundamental. Hunting is a civilized, honorable pursuit. So should we as hunters behave if we wish hunting to persist. Becoming proficient with accoutrements appropriate to task is central to that end.

 

[Calvin45]

Agreed.. The bloodshot always looks worse then it really is...

Yep…and if you can't bring yourself to utilize it, there's always a dog somewhere, probably you have one of your own, that is liable to truly become "man's best friend" if you keep it for him/her

 

[Wyo37]

I saw a comparison earlier on in this thread WRT law enforcement sniper ammunition use. As this is a hunting forum I found that inappropriate. Much like military Geneva Convention ammunition restrictions, law enforcement agencies follows similar ethical and legal restrictions. We're not trying to stop a terrorist threat that may detonate an IED or stop a violent perpetrator in the commission of a violent crime. We're trying to ethically harvest a noble game animal that should be respected and cherished. M stands for Match. Reading, it's fundamental. Hunting is a civilized, honorable pursuit. So should we as hunters behave if we wish hunting to persist. Becoming proficient with accoutrements appropriate to task is central to that end.

A lot to unpack in this one....

1. "Inappropriate"? How so?
2. Could you expound on the "ethical and legal restrictions"?
3. Have you ever used a "match" bullet in a hunting situation?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested

 

[OldElkHunter1961]

A lot to unpack in this one....

1. "Inappropriate"? How so?
2. Could you expound on the "ethical and legal restrictions"?
3. Have you ever used a "match" bullet in a hunting situation?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested

Much like the standard below most political subdivisions (State, County, municipality) have similar language incorporated into their promulgated statutes governing acceptable ammunition to be employed by law enforcement agencies under their jurisdiction. As for hunting only your ethics govern many of your choices. I have no issue with anyone shooting P-dogs or coyotes with a match bullet or FMJ. Using them on elk, deer, bear, etc
... is unwise. I've never done so but have helped others attempt to track animals wounded using said projectiles. Live with your decisions.

ICC Statute
Pursuant to Article 8(2)(b)(xix) of the 1998 ICC Statute, "[e]mploying bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions" constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

 

[hicountry1]

Eldx and eldm both soft cup and core bullets.

Marketing with the name edlx fooled a lot of people, thinking they are like Barnes.

Just a soft cup and core

 

[Calvin45]

Eldx and eldm both soft cup and core bullets.

Marketing with the name edlx fooled a lot of people, thinking they are like Barnes.

Just a soft cup and core

???????

I haven't heard of a single person who was fooled into thinking the eld x was somehow the same as a Barnes x just because of a letter. Who are "a lot of people"?

 

[Wyo37]

Much like the standard below most political subdivisions (State, County, municipality) have similar language incorporated into their promulgated statutes governing acceptable ammunition to be employed by law enforcement agencies under their jurisdiction. As for hunting only your ethics govern many of your choices. I have no issue with anyone shooting P-dogs or coyotes with a match bullet or FMJ. Using them on elk, deer, bear, etc
... is unwise. I've never done so but have helped others attempt to track animals wounded using said projectiles. Live with your decisions.

ICC Statute
Pursuant to Article 8(2)(b)(xix) of the 1998 ICC Statute, "[e]mploying bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions" constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

I believe you are misinformed. Perhaps you should search for actual state statutes or U.S. federal law. I can tell you no such Statute exists for my state.

Hornady TAP ammunition is specifically manufactured for LE. It's designed to fragment (ie expand) and cause large temporary and permanent wound channels. Some departments are going towards bonded rounds for 5.56 for better barrier penetration (they are still designed to expand), however ballistic tip ammunition is widely used in LE.

Speer gold dots are pretty much the standard for LE pistol ammunition and they are designed to expand, and do so extremely well.

I have never heard of any department using fmj for duty ammunition. It would be a terrible choice for many reasons.

Eldm bullets flat out work in cartridges that do not have high muzzle velocities. For short action calibers they work well. Lapua scenar's are another example of a "match" bullet that has killed plenty of animals (I don't have first hand experience with them)

 

[Raudy707]

???????

I haven't heard of a single person who was fooled into thinking the eld x was somehow the same as a Barnes x just because of a letter. Who are "a lot of people"?

I have. I have read on multiple forums and spoken with hunters who think the eldx is a bonded tough hunting bullet. Not sure about the Barnes correlation but I've definitely seen a lot of people fooled by this acronym. Many of those folks are also the same people that believe the 6.5 Creedmoor is an elk rifle and more effective than a 300 win mag.

 

[Huntnful]

This took a political turn for the worst lol. I have to unwatch my own thread .

 

[Calvin45]

This took a political turn for the worst lol. I have to unwatch my own thread .

I recently did a similar thing on one of mine. A conversation on the merits of the 7mm weatherby turned into a pointless debate about whether or not .277 is the REAL 7mm

 

[WildRose]

I saw a comparison earlier on in this thread WRT law enforcement sniper ammunition use. As this is a hunting forum I found that inappropriate. Much like military Geneva Convention ammunition restrictions, law enforcement agencies follows similar ethical and legal restrictions. We're not trying to stop a terrorist threat that may detonate an IED or stop a violent perpetrator in the commission of a violent crime. We're trying to ethically harvest a noble game animal that should be respected and cherished. M stands for Match. Reading, it's fundamental. Hunting is a civilized, honorable pursuit. So should we as hunters behave if we wish hunting to persist. Becoming proficient with accoutrements appropriate to task is central to that end.

Only as long as we pursue it as such.

Well said though and worth a repeat.

 

[hicountry1]

???????

I haven't heard of a single person who was fooled into thinking the eld x was somehow the same as a Barnes x just because of a letter. Who are "a lot of people"?

Well, maybe I a little more read than you.

Have heard Joe q hunter talking about eldx are like Barnes.

Ymmv.....