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How much bullet jump do you like? On VLD type

Longshotjames

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Joined
Jul 24, 2015
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535
Location
Texas hill country
On these longer VLD bullets what type of jump do you find works best in general(I know each rifle is different)?

I am going to try some 168 & 175ABLR in my 7rem mag and I wonder if I should start close to the lands or if they like a big jump?
 
.010-.020" off seems to be pretty common, but yes every gun will always be a bit different. Test to see what YOUR rifle likes :)
 
On these longer VLD bullets what type of jump do you find works best in general(I know each rifle is different)?

I am going to try some 168 & 175ABLR in my 7rem mag and I wonder if I should start close to the lands or if they like a big jump?

Berger has an excellent article/guide on CBTO, COAL, and VLD seating depth.
 
I read the Berger Article on COAL and CBTO and found I knew more than I gave myself credit for.

My dad taught me to find COAL by inserting a dummy round seating the bullet; over 20yrs ago and I still do it that way. I figured there was a much better way to find that but looks like old tricks still work.

I normally start a load at .003 or .005 off the lands and make some test rounds.

I was hoping someone might have learned a sweet spot for the low drag bullets if they preferred a longer jump.

Thanks for all the responses
James
 
I followed the berger process and it definately works. Groups really stood out at .015" from lands Hope the OP dont mind asking here but I found a nice load that shot .531 at 200 yards. Reloaaded some more to repeat my test and my seating depth was .002" closer to lands that my previous loadsand they shot about 1.5" . Would a change of .002 make a difference of that much. Are the bergers that finicky. I could have play a role in them opening up but though.
 
Longshotjames,
Do as the others recommended reading the Berger Article. I just tested it today & it works. I shot groups .010" .050" .090" & .130", It shot best at .o50" but I ended up at .038" off the lands, one raged Hole.
 
Longshotjames,
Do as the others recommended reading the Berger Article. I just tested it today & it works. I shot groups .010" .050" .090" & .130", It shot best at .o50" but I ended up at .038" off the lands, one raged Hole.

Yes sir, thank you. Not sure when I get the next range session but that's my plan, hopefully I will have a good report!
James
 
I followed the berger process and it definately works. Groups really stood out at .015" from lands Hope the OP dont mind asking here but I found a nice load that shot .531 at 200 yards. Reloaaded some more to repeat my test and my seating depth was .002" closer to lands that my previous loadsand they shot about 1.5" . Would a change of .002 make a difference of that much. (Certainly) Are the bergers that finicky. (Absolutely) I could have play a role in them opening up but though. (Probably did)

I typically find the 'sweet spot' and work the jump in 0.002 increments. That applies to all pills, not just Bergers. I jump everything. Except straight wall pistol rounds of course...lol
 
I followed the berger process and it definately works. Groups really stood out at .015" from lands Hope the OP dont mind asking here but I found a nice load that shot .531 at 200 yards. Reloaaded some more to repeat my test and my seating depth was .002" closer to lands that my previous loadsand they shot about 1.5" . Would a change of .002 make a difference of that much. (Certainly) Are the bergers that finicky. (Absolutely) I could have play a role in them opening up but though. (Probably did)

I typically find the 'sweet spot' and work the jump in 0.002 increments. That applies to all pills, not just Bergers. I jump everything. Except straight wall pistol rounds of course...lol

Thanks for answering that question. I will be adding the consistent word more so now to my fine tuning
 
I was hoping someone might have learned a sweet spot for the low drag bullets if they preferred a longer jump.

IMHO, Berger did exactly that ...

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Background​

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won't shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying "this is the best my rifle has ever shot."

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.


Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Solution​
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a "sweet spot". This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won't be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don't give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:

  • .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
  • .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
  • .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
  • .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:

  • .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
  • .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
  • .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
  • .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
Different rifles have different sweet spots ... period! Most of my loads are in the .050" to .060" range.

Cheers!
 
My experience as well. My 243AI runs well with .01", my 300WM likes .08"

I am NOT a big VLD fan, and will shift over to hybrids and classic hunters for 2016.
I don't think the ballistic benefits of VLDs are worth the trouble.

IMHO, Berger did exactly that ...

Different rifles have different sweet spots ... period! Most of my loads are in the .050" to .060" range.

Cheers!
 
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