Help with load dev

[waveslayer]

I've been following the process described in the video by Ryan Furman. This is done at 100 yards.

This is Dan Newberry 's work. OCW test, it works great, better then a Ladder test.

 

[Bitteroot]

This is Dan Newberry 's work. OCW test, it works great, better then a Ladder test.

I've used this in the past from short range to mid range with decent results.
I can't say that it's better than a ladder as both use progressive increments, it's just viewing from a different perspective .

More of a Ford Chevy thing and both do the job.

 

[nksmfamjp]

To be honest, from what I read, I thought I'd hit pressure at the top load we built. I might try hotter and see what happens. I do really want some top shelf brass for my final loads but just wanted to see what we were working with.

How hot have y'all got with H1000 in your system while maintaining accuracy? A couple of my groups were good, but I'm not the greatest group size guy nor bench shooter. Working on that too.

From what I see, Hogdon is showing 79.2gr as max load.

Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center

hodgdonreloading.com

I usually load a single shot ladder from mid to just over book max in 0.5-1% increments to find heavy bolt lift, or other case signs I don't like.

Then I back off about 1% and call that rifle max. Then I load max, max -2%, max -4% for 10 shots each. I set my OAL to the shorter of throat length -0.020", mag length or 100% bearing surface engagement.

I shoot those for groups while minding the Sd, velocity & group size. I tend to pick the best balance with a slight favor to group size.

Then I tune OAL by shooting to a target group size number….maybe 25% better than the last round. I shoot until I blow the group size with 2 shots. When blown, I shorten to the next increment and shoot. Eventually I get to where I make 1-2 10 shot groups and try to pick a best group from my results.

Then I shoot a 20 shot confirmation group. If Sd under 15 and group size near what I believe to be rifle capability, this becomes my load.

Frankly, OCW as described and shot properly will get you similar results.

 

[waveslayer]

I've used this in the past from short range to mid range with decent results.
I can't say that it's better than a ladder as both use progressive increments, it's just viewing from a different perspective .

More of a Ford Chevy thing and both do the job.

Actual is not. The issue with the Ladder test is the single shot, with normal dispersions and variances you get poor results. You may have a good load, but because of normal dispersion you may throw that load out from the beginning. There is a lot of research on it and over time the Ladder test is has become obsolete. Ford and Chevy are still relevent.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Ditch the Hornady brass now. Save yourself headaches in the near future.

Buy Lapua, or maybe ADG/Peterson, and Drop 2gr below your top end, and start over.

If you plan to keep the Hornady brass:

You didn't mention your barrel length on your chart. That might determine if you are nearing pressure with your top load. If that is a 22", you are close. If that os a 26", you might have a little more HP you can gain.
I don't worry about top end speeds. I look for accuracy.

Your top 2 loads are pretty close in both accuracy and velocity. That is where I would continue testing. I would try 77.5gr and go to seating depth testing.

 

[Ubetcha]

Ditch the Hornady brass now. Save yourself headaches in the near future.

Buy Lapua, or maybe ADG/Peterson, and Drop 2gr below your top end, and start over.

If you plan to keep the Hornady brass:

You didn't mention your barrel length on your chart. That might determine if you are nearing pressure with your top load. If that is a 22", you are close. If that os a 26", you might have a little more HP you can gain.
I don't worry about top end speeds. I look for accuracy.

Your top 2 loads are pretty close in both accuracy and velocity. That is where I would continue testing. I would try 77.5gr and go to seating depth testing.

Yes sir. I ordered 100 ADG on Tues and should be here any day. Not to discount anyone's ideas given previously, because I felt like we were on something at 77.5ish area, I loaded some at 77.3, 77.4, 77.5, 77.6, and 77.7. 5 shots each. We'll shoot them tomorrow to see if we were right. I know I'm burning components, but I really just like shooting. We're basically starting fresh with what I should have started with when the new brass arrives as I realize the pressures and powder charges are going to change. I think I at least have a baseline to start with. I will find a similar-ish spot with the new brass, and mess with seating when we get there.

I have a 24" barrel. Gun is a Sig Cross Sawtooth.

Definitely not looking for MAX VELOCITY, just don't want to leave any free speed on the table if ACCURACY is there.

 

[cajun]

3 rounds won't exactly tell you what's good but whats not good. With that combo you should be 2950-3000 according to Nosler data. The top end es and groups are not bad. I would be spending my time there. Half the battle is picking the right powder. According to Nosler you did.

 

[Ubetcha]

I will shoot much larger confirmation groups when I think we got it. Should I be shooting larger groups, earlier in the process?

Going with 5 rounds in this stage honing in.

 

[cajun]

Yes sir. I ordered 100 ADG on Tues and should be here any day. Not to discount anyone's ideas given previously, because I felt like we were on something at 77.5ish area, I loaded some at 77.3, 77.4, 77.5, 77.6, and 77.7. 5 shots each. We'll shoot them tomorrow to see if we were right. I know I'm burning components, but I really just like shooting. We're basically starting fresh with what I should have started with when the new brass arrives as I realize the pressures and powder charges are going to change. I think I at least have a baseline to start with. I will find a similar-ish spot with the new brass, and mess with seating when we get there.

I have a 24" barrel. Gun is a Sig Cross Sawtooth.

Definitely not looking for MAX VELOCITY, just don't want to leave any free speed on the table if ACCURACY is there.

You are going to have to retest with new brass. If it's me I would start in the middle run a one shot ladder to find max velocity and pressure. Back off a tad and next do a seating ladder. I'm guessing after you burn up all those components thats where you will wind up.

 

[cajun]

I will shoot much larger confirmation groups when I think we got it. Should I be shooting larger groups, earlier in the process?

Going with 5 rounds in this stage honing in.

Go watch the Hornady pod cast are my groups to small lol. Honestly what they found is kinda what I've figured out. If you are using the right powder all these .3 charge weights in a case that holds 80 grains of water is noise. If .3 makes it go from bad to good you have the wrong powder. I'm gonna bet you could load 7-8 rounds .3 apart and all 8 would be around moa as a group or close too it. Thats what happens you pick the optimum powder for the bullet. I can do that with the 6.5 CM with H4350 and a 140. That powder is THE powder in the CM for a reason.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Yes sir. I ordered 100 ADG on Tues and should be here any day. Not to discount anyone's ideas given previously, because I felt like we were on something at 77.5ish area, I loaded some at 77.3, 77.4, 77.5, 77.6, and 77.7. 5 shots each. We'll shoot them tomorrow to see if we were right. I know I'm burning components, but I really just like shooting. We're basically starting fresh with what I should have started with when the new brass arrives as I realize the pressures and powder charges are going to change. I think I at least have a baseline to start with. I will find a similar-ish spot with the new brass, and mess with seating when we get there.

I have a 24" barrel. Gun is a Sig Cross Sawtooth.

Definitely not looking for MAX VELOCITY, just don't want to leave any free speed on the table if ACCURACY is there.

If you have ADG brass on order and en route, I personally wouldn't waste the components with the Hornady brass.

I would stick with 3-round groups until you think you are close. If you have three 3-round groups in a row that shoot well (with charge weight and/or seating depth tests) that is a decent confirmation you are on to something with a wide node.

Then load up 15-20 and go shoot at distance. That will tell you a lot.

I just finished a 6.5PRC last weekend, that was shooting great at 100 & 200. Plugged in the numbers, and took it out to 1430. Bamg/bang/bang. 3 hits on a 12w×18h silhouette. Waterline was good, wind played just a bit, but had about 3" high by 6" wide group. Called that load good.

 

[Ubetcha]

Side note to this.... The gun was/is still in break in mode. I've only got around 120-130 rounds down the barrel so far. I started with factory stuff just to shoot it, and have 30 rounds of reloads on it. At what point do you see your velocities level out in the new barrel? I don't want that to skew my load testing.

 

[lancetkenyon]

120-130 in a 300PRC should be fully broken it.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

IME with H1000, 77.5 with ADG cases is prolly about tops without pushing cases more than necessary.