Help with 180 Berger Hybrid Load

[NWmissouriman]

It looks like I'm going to have to switch out my current load for my 7mm Remington Magnum. I've been using 162 Amax's with RL22, but I don't believe I'll be able to get my hands on enough bullets to last me before Hornady starts making them again. I'm thinking about stocking up on 180 Berger Hybrids when they start hitting the shelves again. I will be using Norma brass, or at least that's what I have anyways. Could anyone tell me what powder (preferably the least temp. sensitive) to use, how much (or what works for them), and what kind of velocity to expect? I'm also not opposed to the 168 VLDS, but figured on the 180's for the higher BC, but would gladly listen to any load data on those as well. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Why not just swap to the Berger 168 VLD's...It will be a much easier swap.

I have found that none of my 7mm rifles like the 180 Hybrids, except my 7mm STW. I had about given up hope, until I decided to do a ladder-test in my STW just for fun to see if it liked them, and it did.

I tried them in all 3 of my 7mm RM's, and none of them like the 180 Hybrids. I guess they were just a tad too heavy and long, and moving too slow for them. However, all of mine love the 168 VLD's. Dropped 2 deer with them this year. First one only ran about 25 yards, and the second one was a bang-flop. She didn't take a step... I have been really impressed with the 168's and the VLD bullets in general, both target shooting and hunting.

Back to the topic at-hand...If you have a true 1:9 twist barrel, you SHOULD be able to shoot them fine.

I use 7828 SSC, and it has proven day-in, day-out to be very temp stable for me. Both deer I killed this past year were shot in the same weekend, 1 day apart, with the same loads that were loaded at the same time. But the temp had swung about 35 degrees between those shots. The first shot was EARLY in the morning and it was about 18 degrees outside. It was dammit-cold. The second shot it was probably around 50-55 degrees in the afternoon. So far it's survived a 35 degree Alabama temp swing, which is pretty impressive. LOL

 

[NWmissouriman]

Thanks for your input! I just figured I'd be better off with the higher BC of the 180s, but after reading your post I'm glad I didn't backorder a boatload of them. I guess the best thing to do is buy a few of the 168s and 180s and test them. I don't have my hopes up now though for the 180s. I forgot to mention what my barrel was. Its a Shilen Match Grade Select 27 1/2" 1:9 twist Stainless Steel. So, I should be able to use either. Temperature sensitivity is probably a big issue for where I'm at. My hunting is done at a big temperature spread, -20 to 60. That's a huge difference, you never know what you're going to get here. Also, I do most of my shooting and sighting in during July-September and its anywhere from 70-105. Basically I practice when its nice and hunt when it is brutal, so whatever will work best. I'm sure there isn't a powder that works the same from -20 to 105, but whichever one will have the least difference is most ideal. Once again, thanks, you have the wheels in my heading turning!

 

[FearNoWind]

I use Alliant RL17 with Berger 180 VLD (my .284 - vis a vis 7mm - likes 51.1 grains of RL17) and it works very very well. gun)

 

[brentc]

Retumbo and H1000 are my go-to powders for both 180s and 168s in my 28" Pac-nor. I'm sure H4831 would work too. You might sacrifice some velocity with 4831 though.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thanks for your input! I just figured I'd be better off with the higher BC of the 180s, but after reading your post I'm glad I didn't backorder a boatload of them. I guess the best thing to do is buy a few of the 168s and 180s and test them. I don't have my hopes up now though for the 180s. I forgot to mention what my barrel was. Its a Shilen Match Grade Select 27 1/2" 1:9 twist Stainless Steel. So, I should be able to use either. Temperature sensitivity is probably a big issue for where I'm at. My hunting is done at a big temperature spread, -20 to 60. That's a huge difference, you never know what you're going to get here. Also, I do most of my shooting and sighting in during July-September and its anywhere from 70-105. Basically I practice when its nice and hunt when it is brutal, so whatever will work best. I'm sure there isn't a powder that works the same from -20 to 105, but whichever one will have the least difference is most ideal. Once again, thanks, you have the wheels in my heading turning!

If you have an aftermarket 1:9 twist barrel, you should have no issues shooting the 180's. However, most factory barrels they say it's a 9" twist, but it might really be a 9.25" or a 9.5" when measured, and they won't stabilize them. Which I think it what happened with my Rem 700 barrel. I know for a fact both my Ruger and Browning 7mmRM's came with 9.5" twists from the factory. But my Remington was supposed to be a 1:9, and it doesn't like the 180's.

Like I said, if you have a good quality name brand aftermarket barrel with a 1:9 twist, and you find the right powder charge, you should have no issues shooting the 180 VLD's or Hybrids.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Retumbo and H1000 are my go-to powders for both 180s and 168s in my 28" Pac-nor. I'm sure H4831 would work too. You might sacrifice some velocity with 4831 though.

I might have had a bad batch of H1000...But I have found it to not be as temp-stable as they claim it to be. Like I said, could have been a bad batch, but it happened. Load shot great in the fall/winter...Come spring/summer it would have shot a better group if I had picked up a handful of bulelts and thrown them at the target myself.

 

[rick523]

H1000 and 168vld's for me in my 7RM and the H1000 is quite temp stable. With a 9 twist the 180's should work for you fine. As mudrunner stated the 168's are very bad medicine for deer. I killed a large muley at 803yds last Sept. He went about 8yds and down.

 

[NWmissouriman]

I might have had a bad batch of H1000...But I have found it to not be as temp-stable as they claim it to be. Like I said, could have been a bad batch, but it happened. Load shot great in the fall/winter...Come spring/summer it would have shot a better group if I had picked up a handful of bulelts and thrown them at the target myself.

Haha. That's EXACTLY what I don't want to happen. It's a good shooting gun and I really hate to mess with it, but I'm afraid I won't have a choice. My buddy who does my reloading can shoot 1 hole groups with it, I personally am not quite there. However, I think it's going to be hard to get the same results, I could be wrong. Sounds like I should leave H1000 out of my equation potentially. Thanks for that. I guess if you're curious as to what my gun is I actually just posted a short description and a couple of pictures in the gun photos section.

 

[NWmissouriman]

Retumbo and H1000 are my go-to powders for both 180s and 168s in my 28" Pac-nor. I'm sure H4831 would work too. You might sacrifice some velocity with 4831 though.

Any idea which one is less temperature sensitive? What kind of velocity are you getting from the powders? Thanks for all the responses!

 

[NWmissouriman]

H1000 and 168vld's for me in my 7RM and the H1000 is quite temp stable. With a 9 twist the 180's should work for you fine. As mudrunner stated the 168's are very bad medicine for deer. I killed a large muley at 803yds last Sept. He went about 8yds and down.

That's very good to know. Most of my shots on whitetail have been 400 or less, but I have plenty of places to shoot to 1,000 and when I get the time, I'm going to start practicing more at distances out to 1,000. Knowing that bullet can perform at that distance is very helpful information! What kind of temperature swings do you experience in your neck of the woods? I'm getting a few mixed reviews on H1000, but like mudrunner said, he could have had a bad batch. I'm hoping to keep any new load development to as little trial and error as possible, mostly because I hate shooting 3 shots, cleaning, and shooting three moregun), guess I'm lazy like that haha. Thank you!

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you want as little trial and error as possible, I still recommend IMR 7828 SSC.

Alliant Reloder 22, is also a good one for the 7mmRM, but Alliant powders are pretty hard to find right now with the new Federal/Alliant merger.

 

[NWmissouriman]

If you want as little trial and error as possible, I still recommend IMR 7828 SSC.

Alliant Reloder 22, is also a good one for the 7mmRM, but Alliant powders are pretty hard to find right now with the new Federal/Alliant merger.

Thanks! I've been using RL22 with my 162's in Norma brass. I think it shoots different though depending on the temperature. I can't prove it yet, because I don't have my own chronograph (I am getting one in a month or two). I've also heard that the RL22 was pretty sensitive so I figured if I were going to get away from it, this would be the time. I appreciate all your input!

 

[rick523]

To answer your question, I shot my 300wm yesterday the temps were in the low to mid 30's. The last time I shot it was in late Aug. temps in 90's. I hung some 10" steel drove down the lane and stopped to shoot got set-up, when I took a range reading I was only at 644 yds. Put in all my dope, took 5 shots drove down to look at group, it measured just under 3" center to center. Good enough for me 230 gr. bergers and H1000.