Heads up on leupold scopes (MOA vs IPHY)

[pyroducksx3]

So I recently purchased a leupold vx-3 scope. I did a lot of research on scopes I wanted MOA adjustments and a ballistic reticle. Had a vortex wanted a nightforce ended up with a vx-III 4.5-14 varmint reticle. They are advertised and listed on their website as MOA adjustment and even marked on the turret as 1 click = 1 min but guess what called their tecs with a question and found out they arent MOA but IPHY (inches per hundred yards) and he had no answer as to why they are advertising false information. So heads up if you are looking at leupold. Im thinking about going to Vortex PST as they have true MOA turrets (I actually called to check). I just dont get what leupold is think making such a false statement and knowing that its inaccurate.

 

[Tikkamike]

So I recently purchased a leupold vx-3 scope. I did a lot of research on scopes I wanted MOA adjustments and a ballistic reticle. Had a vortex wanted a nightforce ended up with a vx-III 4.5-14 varmint reticle. They are advertised and listed on their website as MOA adjustment and even marked on the turret as 1 click = 1 min but guess what called their tecs with a question and found out they arent MOA but IPHY (inches per hundred yards) and he had no answer as to why they are advertising false information. So heads up if you are looking at leupold.

I have never heard this before... Not saying the guy didnt say it, but if that were the case I think one of us would have figured that out by now. Maybe I am uninformed and its common knowledge.. Hopefully more people chime in on this. but my leupolds match up with moa clicks out to 1000 yards and beyond which is where you would see the difference

 

[pyroducksx3]

My gunsmith was the one that actually pointed it out to me and then I called leupold to comfirm. Call leupold and ask I would actually appreciate a second conformation, Im hoping that something is just confused as I like the scope but really want MOA vs IPHY

 

[Tikkamike]

ill call and let you know what they say

 

[Tikkamike]

I just talked to Leupold and the guys said they are all MOA not IPHY

 

[pyroducksx3]

Hmmm... the guy I talked was so sure that he has a manager calling me to work out how to handle this. Guess I'll call again and see if I get another tec. I just talked to them again and they said the same thing. I asked why two tecs would say something different and he said that they are basically the same but there would be a difference at longer range. Ahh Im so confused right now. You asked him specically if they were MOA and not IPHY?

 

[Hired Gun]

I have a friend, now retired, who was an engineer at Leupold. He states that since day one the sporting scopes were set up to adjust in MOA. It is the only internationally accepted unit of angular measurement. The mil adjustments came latter.

Just guessing the tech line guys have very limited knowledge to do their jobs. That is to determine if your scope is broken or to read the manual to us over the phone.

Something to consider.
Assuming one of the least likely choices for long range hunting but still used. The 308 Win using 168 grain FGMM ammo.

Exbal
States:
At 500 yards 12.5 MOA x 1.0472 x 5 = 65.45" drop
IPHY 12.5 x1" x 5 = 62.5" drop. 2.95 inches of drop difference.
Not much on big game.

At 1000 is states correction in MOA to get to 1000 yards is 41.5 MOA x 1.0472" = 43.4588" elevation x 10 = 434.59 inches of drop
If you used 41.5 IPHY x 1" x10 = 415" drop
This makes a drop difference is of 1.9588" x 10 = 19.5" drop difference.
On a .308 Win. At 1000 yards this is a 19.5" difference in drop. Enough to cause a big miss. On a flatter shooting gun it's much less.

Reason for correction.
Corrected my math.

 

[pyroducksx3]

After talking it out with the smith and looking at what the difference really amounts to I think Im going to work with leupolds for now but still just frustrating. I still think leupold are IPHY as are many scopes, some nikons, burris, zeiss. I wish they would have just stated the true value. I still havent got a call back from a leupold manager but when I do Ill post what I find out.

 

[bruce_ventura]

I would not trust advice from a tech support person on this issue. If the 4.7% difference between MOA and IPHY is important to you, then I suggest that you calibrate your scope carefully and accurately at the range. That means:

1. Place the rifle on a rest located directly under the objective bell, so that there is no confusion about which angle you"re measuring, and you've minimized vertical gun movement between elevation settings.
2. Measure the target range from the pivot point of your rifle (center of the rest).
3. Fire five shot groups at zero and -10 "MOA" (indicated), and zero and +10 "MOA" (indicated). Use a single sheet of paper for each comparison. That's three or four five-shot groups, depending on the size of your paper.
4. Fire a couple of fouling shots and then fire your five-shot groups, allowing five minutes between each shot for the barrel to cool. Use the center of each five shot group to establish the point of impact (POI).
5. Use a laser rangefinder and a steel ruler to measure distances for POI locations.
6. Make your measurements and do the math.

That's how I would do it. While I was at it, I would use this live fire test to confirm that my elevation turret is properly aligned to the rifle. That's a topic for another thread, however.

Please report your results here.

 

[pyroducksx3]

I would not trust advice from a tech support person on this issue. If the 4.7% difference between MOA and IPHY is important to you, then I suggest that you calibrate your scope carefully and accurately at the range. That means:

1. Place the rifle on a rest located directly under the objective bell, so that there is no confusion about which angle you"re measuring, and you've minimized vertical gun movement between elevation settings.
2. Measure the target range from the pivot point of your rifle (center of the rest).
3. Fire five shot groups at zero and -10 "MOA" (indicated), and zero and +10 "MOA" (indicated). Use a single sheet of paper for each comparison. That's three or four five-shot groups, depending on the size of your paper.
4. Fire a couple of fouling shots and then fire your five-shot groups, allowing five minutes between each shot for the barrel to cool. Use the center of each five shot group to establish the point of impact (POI).
5. Use a laser rangefinder and a steel ruler to measure distances for POI locations.
6. Make your measurements and do the math.

That's how I would do it. While I was at it, I would use this live fire test to confirm that my elevation turret is properly aligned to the rifle. That's a topic for another thread, however.

Please report your results here.

I cant say when I will get this done but I will try

 

[pyroducksx3]

I think its kinda of funny too, people are asking why does such a little difference matter. Well after spending the money on a custom rifle, load testing the powders to get ES low and a great group and using a precision bullets seater to get the seating depth perfect. Then to hear its close it shouldnt really matter. If close is good enough then why did I need to go through all this and not just keep my 1 moa rifle? I am going to keep using the scope but knowing what my scope click values are will help. I wish I would have realized it from the start. I still havent heard back from leupold but will still post what they say. update I called a third time and got a different tec and he said leupold are all MOA and not IPHY so ***, hopefully someone higher in the company will call me back and clear this up.

 

[bruce_ventura]

I cant say when I will get this done but I will try

Haha. Sorry for ending my post that way.

It's actually a simple test that is quite accurate if done carefully. It will take a couple of hours at most. Then you won't have to take anyone's word for it. You'll always know the correct elevation because you calibrated the turret.

I believe it is worthwhile to calibrate your elevation turret if you want to play the long range game. There are too many variables outside of your control. You have to remove as much error as you possibly can from the variables under your control. Turret calibration, reticle alignment, chronographed rounds, measured ballistic coefficients, spind drift, temp, pressure, etc. They're all small effects, but they can add up to a missed shot.

Good luck. I really would like to know what you learn, if you get the chance.

 

[gunaddict]

Alan Ransom is head of Leupold Technical Services. Ask to talk to him or Dave Domin.

 

[Bravo 4]

Lik Bruce said, don't trust the Techs or what is written on a scope...check it yourself.
I've called them on an issue and got more then one answer from different techs, and I've had their adjustments be off by 10% after they blessed off on it.